How Do We Know that the PS3 Will Be 100% Backwards Compatible

[MasaC]

This is what Sony said about backward compatibility on their press conference at E3:

Ken Kutaragi has said this will be achieved through a combination of hardware and software but haven't given us the technical details yet.

The xbox 360 will require a HDD for backward compatibility because xbox1 games require a HDD. That't not the case with PS2 or PS1. I only know of one game which require a HDD on the PS2 and that's Final Fantasy 11 so I wouldn't expect that game to work without a HDD if at all.

 

[jvd]

Depending on thier hardrive support ff online may not work. however it will be interesting to see how it pans out . I wonder if either will have a 100% or even 90% compatibilty

 

[valioso]

What's speculation, that you won't need a hard drive to play PS1 and PS2 games?

I'd be willing to put quite a sum of money on it if you want to wager. Sometimes there's speculation, and sometimes there's the obvious.

why is it obvious? they have not said anything about BC since E3, and they had plenty of chances to take shots at MS' troubles with it.. I think if they had something concrete that was better they would have said it, in all the times Kutaragi has called the 360, xbox 1.5 and such. If they don't plan to put any hardware from the ps2 and ps1 on the ps3, is going to be more emulation than hardware, and with emulation comes problems.

 

[Magnum PI]

what is backward compatibility ?

it's that simple: you put a title made for the older console, and it works in most of the cases.

it won't work for a few games but there is some general mecanism that allows you to run titles made for the previous generation console, it was not made to especially support one title or another.

when you can run some of these titles only if the console maker especialty made something in that order like patch or recompiled binary...
it's not backward compatibilty. it's porting of some older titles. like the porting of ocarina of time under GC.

if microsoft make so that you can run something like 95% of xbox titles under xbox 360, it will be practically equivalent to backward compatibility, but it isn't.

 

[scooby_dooby]

5,200 titles for PS2???

Gamespot only lists ~2400..what's goin on?

 

[scooby_dooby]

what is backward compatibility ?

it's that simple: you put a title made for the older console, and it works in most of the cases.

it won't work for a few games but there is some general mecanism that allows you to run titles made for the previous generation console, it was not made to especially support one title or another.

this is exactly what 360 has. It has an emulator(general mechanism) that can play the majoryt of XBOX1 games, however it does not play them all.

In these 'special cases' a redesigned XBE is required.

 

[Carl B]

why is it obvious? they have not said anything about BC since E3, and they had plenty of chances to take shots at MS' troubles with it.. I think if they had something concrete that was better they would have said it, in all the times Kutaragi has called the 360, xbox 1.5 and such. If they don't plan to put any hardware from the ps2 and ps1 on the ps3, is going to be more emulation than hardware, and with emulation comes problems.

I seriously think it just goes without saying at this point. They stated it would be 'fully' backwards compatible; they have better things to do than harrass Microsoft on their implementation of a feature Microsoft themselves was calling 'unimportant' until their own announcement of such. I mean, take me up on my bet if you doubt at all. Sony also isn't talking up the fact that the PS3 can play regular DVD's, but that doesn't mean it can't, am I right?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

why is it obvious? they have not said anything about BC since E3, and they had plenty of chances to take shots at MS' troubles with it..

Which they did...

"The current Xbox will become antiquated once the new machine comes out this November. When that happens, the Xbox will be killing itself. The only way to avoid that is to support 100 percent compatibility from its [Xbox 360's] launch date, but Microsoft won't be able to commit to that. It's technically difficult," Kutaragi commented.

I think if they had something concrete that was better they would have said it. If they don't plan to put any hardware from the ps2 and ps1 on the ps3, is going to be more emulation than hardware, and with emulation comes problems.

Hmmm. I repeat

"It will be done through a combination of hardware and software. We can do it with software alone, but it's important to make it as close to perfect as possible," said Kutaragi via GameSpot's diligent translation.

and what about...

"PSOne runs on the PlayStation 2 through emulation rather than actual hardware. PlayStation 3 will offer the same compatibility for PS2 software, and the format will continue forever," Kutaragi reportedly told Japanese newspaper Asahi Shimbun.

 

[valioso]

I seriously think it just goes without saying at this point. They stated it would be 'fully' backwards compatible; they have better things to do than harrass Microsoft on their implementation of a feature Microsoft themselves was calling 'unimportant' until their own announcement of such. I mean, take me up on my bet if you doubt at all. Sony also isn't talking up the fact that the PS3 can play regular DVD's, but that doesn't mean it can't, am I right?

bet on BC, what for? Is not that I doubt it, I just dont see any information out there that guarantees 100% compatible. PR talk is nice, but time will tell.

 

[Magnum PI]

5,200 titles for PS2???

Gamespot only lists ~2400..what's goin on?

do they list every title ?
there is a lot of titles that are published in japan but not published in US.

 

[Magnum PI]

this is exactly what 360 has. It has an emulator(general mechanism) that can play the majoryt of XBOX1 games, however it does not play them all.

In these 'special cases' a redesigned XBE is required.

please read this thread:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19972

"existing software will need to be recompiled before it can be run on the new console."

"the solution Microsoft has reached is apparently to recompiled current-gen Xbox games so that they can be played on the 360. First on the list, it says, are the best-selling Halo titles."

if the ability to play 3rd party title implies that the 3rd party spent some resources in order to make it possible, i guess they'll prefer to sell you the xbox360 version that to spend money make the old software run on the 360.

if the above is true, the use of the term "backward compatibility" is deceiving.

 

[London Geezer]

Gamespot will only have games that are reviewed by other sites. There must be a lot of unknown japanese games that never made it to the reviewers, though i was also thinking that 3000 unknown titles sounds like a lot.

Dunno there must be something we're missing.

 

[Inane_Dork]

So instead of 99%, it could be what 95%. Still pretty strong if you ask me. (I know I'm speculating now also in this statement. )

I'm just pointing out that things have changed for the worse, so expecting the same level of compatibility is not really warranted yet. If you don't agree, let me know why. I would love for you to actually add something to this conversation.

 

[Xeno]

bet on BC, what for? Is not that I doubt it, I just dont see any information out there that guarantees 100% compatible. PR talk is nice, but time will tell.

Read the post above yours.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm just pointing out that things have changed for the worse, so expecting the same level of compatibility is not really warranted yet. If you don't agree, let me know why. I would love for you to actually add something to this conversation.

Inane I have read all the information that MasaC and others have posted earlier. I was just finding it funny that some people were comparing the BC situation between the PS3 and X360 as if they were the same, when its super obvious that they are NOT.

I was assuming that most people here have read the interviews from Ken and other Sony execs, along with seeing the E3 conference. Sorry if you or anybody else missed out. But it is obvious to anybody looking at this with a open mind that Sony's BC situation is better. I don't see the problem with that being said.:neutral:

 

[scooby_dooby]

please read this thread:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19972

"existing software will need to be recompiled before it can be run on the new console."

"the solution Microsoft has reached is apparently to recompiled current-gen Xbox games so that they can be played on the 360. First on the list, it says, are the best-selling Halo titles."

if the ability to play 3rd party title implies that the 3rd party spent some resources in order to make it possible, i guess they'll prefer to sell you the xbox360 version that to spend money make the old software run on the 360.

if the above is true, the use of the term "backward compatibility" is deceiving.

You need to read up a little more. Read J Allards comments regarding BC.

Not sure what he's talking about with the Layers, but it's very clear that layer 1 games(which are the majority) can be played by simple emulation, layer2 games(which are games that really push the system, AAA titles) need recompiled software.

edit - found an article:

"The most important announcement at this event was the demonstration of the Xbox 360, planned for release this holiday season. Company management stated that the Xbox 360 would be backward compatible for “most top selling Xbox gamesâ€￾, and pledged “support “ for the current generation Xbox “well into 2006â€￾. Two weeks ago, we noted our concern that the Xbox 360 may not be backward compatible with Xbox software due to a change in graphics processor chipset manufacturers from Nvidia to ATI. In a separate meeting with Microsoft management, we confirmed that the company has agreed to pay a small royalty to Nvidia to allow the Xbox 360’s ATI chipset to emulate the performance of the Nvidia chipset in reading certain Xbox games. For games written in a single layer
(management assumes that this is a large percentage of Xbox games), the hardware emulation should perform well.

For games written in multiple layers, a further emulation must be provided. The company intends to create software “patchesâ€￾ (i.e., separate emulation programs) for top-selling Xbox games written in multiple layers, and intends to sell the Xbox 360 with a hard drive that is pre-loaded with these patches. We presume that the majority of Xbox games will be backward compatible, and the company assured us that it intends to add patches should consumer demand warrant such action."
http://www.xbox360-info.com//content/view/20/1/

 

[TrungGap]

I was assuming that most people here have read the interviews from Ken and other Sony execs, along with seeing the E3 conference. Sorry if you or anybody else missed out. But it is obvious to anybody looking at this with a open mind that Sony's BC situation is better. I don't see the problem with that being said.:neutral:

Sorry, if I missed something, but could you explain to me how they have implemented PS3's BC so that it's BC will be better than PS2 emulating PS1 (or X360 to emulate XB1)? I assume the Cell would have enough power to emulate the cpu and vu's, but what about eDRAM? Are they planning to have eDRAM in PS3 for BC?

 

[Sis]

No link, buddy. I agree with you. I'm talking STATISTICALLY they will have better b/c since they have more games. It's common sense.

?

Statistically what? If you are saying that because the PS 1&2 library is LARGER than the Xbox library, than MORE games will be back compat on the PS3 (since 90% of 10,000 is more than 90% of 1500), then sure...

Actually, scratch that, as I was going to debate you on mixing up math. I'll state this another way:

The SIZE of a game library has absolutely nothing to do with the effectiveness of a b/c solution. Instead, it all depends on the technical challenges that must be overcome, of which one platform may have a better solution than another.

.Sis

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

l-b, I doubt we're actually missing anything in the number differences (2400 vs 5200). You'd be shocked at how many games never make it here from Japan. Love Adventure/Sim games alone probably account for several hundred in that discrepency alone.


As to the eDram, what was the bandwidth associated with the PS2? Something like 2058MBps? Sorry, my memory's fuzzy. Anyway, considering the copious amount on PS3, couldn't they find a way to emulate that? Personally, I've often wondered what with the whole phantom transitors thing on G70 that the PS3 will have some eDram built in, though Kutaragi apparently doesn't like eDram as an option.

 

[Thegameman]

bet on BC, what for? Is not that I doubt it, I just dont see any information out there that guarantees 100% compatible. PR talk is nice, but time will tell.

But isn't all the companys equal on this?

I mean MS PR and Sony PR is the same at the end,but sony better have what they say cuz they already say more 13,000 games,if you see what MS say they don't even say half the xbox games will be compatible,they only say best seling games,and other will be make compatible latter on.


If Sony don't deliver they will look just like MS did when they anounce no HDD standar after hyping it to be that way.