Will the PS3 have an XMB desktop that has Browser abilities

[jeff_rigby]

For those who don't read the edited posts:

Sony can go the Android OS or Chrome OS route and build their own desktop or they can use GTK+3 (example and the only toolkit I have read that currently uses Cairo 100%) and use it for Webkit and to build their own custom front end like the various flavors of Linux do. Gnome is a Linux desktop built using the GTK+3 toolkit that is now totally based on Cairo. In either case Cairo is the basic building block. There is a webkit port totally based on GTK+3 which uses Cairo and Gstreamer integrated with Cairo supported with OpenGL (PSGL).

IF GTK+3 (example) is used then there are multiple open source applications that can be easily ported to the PS3. With a do it yourself desktop the core logic of applications can be used but the entire GUI would need to be rewritten. The PS3 and certainly the NGP have the power and memory to do either case. Remember the PS3 did have full blown Linux support. An abbreviated custom theme desktop and OS with much of the not needed Linux kernel functionality stripped out in a Sony designed multi-media closed platform flavor of Linux should be snappier than what we had. With Cario properly OpenGL (or PSGL) supported, drawing should be equal to high end PC Linux.

Why would they do the work to redesign the XMB?

(Speaking of ecosystem wars)Then, Sony should develop more first-party applications for their platforms. These apps would need to do useful things that will help consumers understand the value that Sony offers — these applications must be unique and memorable. It’s no mistake that some of the most-used applications on a platform like Android, for example, are created by Google. If Sony creates a platform and creates high-quality applications for it, they will, at the very least, earn the respect of consumers and developers.

It'd mean Sony could potentially make money from Android devices from licensees to this SDK. And this SDK will gain added value from supporting the PS hardware range (needs a PS3 version tout suite), offering a potentially larger gaming base than any other Android SDK.

(Speaking of ecosystem wars) Now Sony's platform is PS+Android, where MS's is XNA and mobile 7. It only needs Apple to create a console and they'll be going head to head.

And with Cairo supported XMB and GTK+ in the PS3, it's more a matter of cut and paste from existing Open Source libraries by a Linux guy; like for instance, Geoff Levand, the guy in charge of the webkit port to the PS3.

The XMB or something like it can be the default desktop with user config options. Overlay applications are possible for any user choice or version for the XMB.

Hold for PS4, why? 2011 is going to see stiff competition from Xbox360 MS with Windows7 and Silverlight5 and as mentioned in the ecosystem wars article and the Shifty quote above, Sony needs applications that show the value of their platforms. What's the easy way to provide them, either choice above. And how can Sony differentiate it'self, it's starting this ecosystem with much more powerful hardware than Google started with Android, so why use the choices Google did and downgrade your OS to fit least common denominator hardware. That is the advantage of a game console or closed platform ecosystem, the hardware choices are choices, least common denominator hardware is not an issue....play up to your strengths.

Imagine a Sony Linux flavor for multi-media, we can hope. It will probably be closed platform but even then, more applications to choose from in a Sony Store.

The desktop and webkit is merging: Application built with the GTK+3 toolkit can/will run inside Cairo supported (Firefox) web browsers.

Watch remote desktop in Firefox http://vimeo.com/17132064
Watch desktop application runs in Firefox http://vimeo.com/21062117
All graphics made possible with Cairo SVG support in Firefox and GTK 3.0 applications. Resolution independent and will work in phone, tablet and PS3 screens.

 

[jonabbey]

Again, there is a world of open source libraries that Sony could use. The question is whether they have any plans to use that stuff, and they've not announced anything like that.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Again, there is a world of open source libraries that Sony could use. The question is whether they have any plans to use that stuff, and they've not announced anything like that.

Could you be more specific about that stuff? Some has been confirmed and announced.

Cairo and Gstreamer have been announced. The rest is looking at what's available that uses those libraries.

Cairo announcement:

http://Cairo in Sony SNAP Deveoper site

SNAP has a re-architected display model and backend based on Cairo evolving toward COLLADA over time. Our look and feel also includes navigation metaphors derived from standard Sony UX constructs such as our XrossMediaBar.

COLLADA is an open source standard file format for game assets.
re-architected display model and backend based on Cairo evolving toward supporting COLLADA

The above is a BIG statement, re-architected means they are going to change the way they display from what they use now to Cairo based. Back end means low level PSGL, so the basic backbone for graphics on Sony products will be built on the upper level cairo rather than low level GPU calls. And they expect that upper level Cairo to evolve to support the feature set needed by games. PSGL is not OpenGL and Cairo may be a way to standardize graphics/GPU by supporting Cairo with Sony developed PSGL. The end result is Cairo on any platform be it PSGL supported or OpenGL will produce the same results. PS Suite may use cairo.

The Snap Developer program uses GNUstep derived open source libraries. Cairo is GNUstep and has been evolving with OpenGL as it evolved. It has now, as of January 2011, been released as a stable library. The GNUstep GUI toolkit is X11 based but the industry is moving to Cairo based GUI toolkits (GTK3 is an example) because they are scaleable Vector Graphics and with OpenGL or PSGL as a backend to Cairo, a Cairo supported webkit, Gstreamer binding with Cairo, Cairo/Pongo fonts and all graphics calls with the upper level Cairo results in an efficient total package for resource limited platforms.

Tweet posted from Sony employee 7-25-2010 saying big upgrade coming in two months:

And two months later 9/28/2010 PS3 firmware 3.5 was released with a HTML5 Webkit javascript engine.

Email from Sony employee 11/2010 more support coming:

Yes, we have a port of webkit that runs on PS3. It
is actually a generic Cairo/POSIX port. You can get
what we have for release here:

http://downloads.snei-opensource.com/pub/webkit/

It is now just javascript core, but we will be releasing
updates with more support in the coming months

http://downloads.snei-opensource.com/pub/webkit/webkit-10.10.01-14fd0bd2/

Proof:

Parent Directory -
ps3-compat-headers-10.10.01-14fd0bd2.tar.gz 19-Oct-2010 12:37 3.2K
ps3-exports-10.10.01-14fd0bd2.tar.gz 19-Oct-2010 12:37 2.2K
webkit-10.10.01-14fd0bd2-SHA1SUM 11-Nov-2010 14:00 355
webkit-10.10.01-14fd0bd2.tar.gz 19-Oct-2010 12:37 341M
webkit-patches-10.10.01-14fd0bd2.tar.gz 19-Oct-2010 12:37 90K

So that's two announcements for Cairo. In the following picture Cairo is part of the GNUstep library.

Gstreamer
http://snap.sonydeveloper.com/develop/platform/

When were they ported to the PS3

The timing of the firmware 3.5 HTML5 javascript engine which has API hooks to cairo and the Lua Home client upgrade a few weeks later that uses fewer resources but adds allot of shader functions (fog, snow, shadows etc) makes me believe that Cairo is in the PS3 now. It's typical of upper level language libraries resulting in smaller application sizes; another reason for using Cairo. There is a LUA language binding for Cairo.

Gstreamer has been in the PS3 since release.

Power PC support for Gstreamer core and plugins since 2005. Wiki mentions that the primary use for the Power PC port/version was for game consoles. Looking at the multi-media features and 150 plugins for Gstreamer confirms it's value and use in the PS3. Firefox and Opera use Gstreamer for multi-media also.

Then if you look for a webkit port that uses Cairo and Gstreamer as well as the minimum system resources it's apparently a GTK3 webkit/gstreamer/cairo/pongo/ port.

Cairo can have several back ends to support drawing, the one that uses the least resources is OpenGL and Sony can custom support cairo with PSGL.

Pongo & cairo work together to produce the fonts for text

Gstreamer is already in the PS3 for multi-media and codecs and a version of webkit uses gstreamer. Firefox and Opera also use Gstreamer.

GTK3 is a toolkit for GUI that now uses cairo. This is not necessary as Sony can custom make their own GUI and possible save kernel space. Then again GTK3 is not that large and it would make it easier to port "Free" applications and for third party applications to be written for the PS3 & NGP. This is already discussed in this thread. There is a GNUstep GUI toolkit based on X11 but X11 would bloat a kernel and use more resources than GTK3 using cairo.

There are dependencies in the above choices that I have not gone into and may need custom coding.

Gstreamer with Cairo bindings is a big feature also mentioned in the HTML5 in consoles thread page 20

"You have to understand that this goes far beyond just replacing Flash video players. That is the first step, but with video being a first class citizen in the DOM and not hidden in a sandbox, developers can style and play with the video data however they can imagine. You can spin, skew, colourise and even map it onto a 3D cube. Anything else on the page can change or interact with changes in the video. We’ll be able to invent new ways of annotating and commenting on videos, all without the use of Flash, and therefore inherently compatible with any OS and any device, including mobile phones."

Firefox implemented the first use of Gstreamer for HTML5 video (2008). Collabora (open source) and Opera now use Gstreamer integrated with the Cairo or SVG graphics pipeline for the HTML5 <video> tag. Sony and others will implement this. This may be one of the reason for Sony's choice to use Opera on their 2011 TV's and blu-ray players, Opera uses Gstreamer for HTML5 video support and integrates the video with 2D SVG.

The quotes above; " integrated the backend with GTk/WebKit's Cairo graphics pipeline, making it possible for the video content to be embedded in SVG and manipulated with CSS and JavaScript." and " You can spin, skew, colourise and even map it onto a 3D cube." describe something like the above video clip. It's just a series of pictures being manipulated, with Gstreamer, video streams can be manipulated the same way. It will be possible inside a webkit browser and on the PS3 XMB. Edit: The two finger iOS ability to pinch and expand pictures really impressed me and I think Sony. With Cairo and Gstreamer this and more is possible. I expect this to be a part of updates and new platforms.

The virtual reality demoed with the NGP where the forward facing camera grabs a real time video of a parking lot with gstreamer and cairo is used to key and overlay the image of a dinosaur sitting in the parking lot and the motion sensors allow tilting of the NGP to change the view or vector representation of the dinosaur in the real time video is an example of gstreamer-cairo.

What you should get from this, The Cairo SVG graphics library is a major player in just about everything webkit. Outside the webkit, Gstreamer-Cairo is going to be a major player on the Desktop and in multi-media and multi-media games.

This is my best guess and I am open to constructive criticism, could you perhaps list what you think is available and I'll tell you why I dismissed that possibility.

There is a supportable argument that Sony will not change the look and feel of the XMB. It will probably be rewritten using Cairo rather than lower level PSGL, at least for the non-game version of the XMB. The decisions will be based on how much memory is used either way. It's possible that including the upper level Cairo library and using that rather than low level may result in a smaller XMB-kernel-memory footprint overall. For the XMB multi-media side (non-game) rewriting the XMB to use cairo makes sense and allows the XMB to be treated like a Cairo or HTML5 canvas surface. From that point we can speculate what Sony may do with that.

If Sony is not rewriting the XMB to use Cairo then a webkit port could come at any time, other than debugging and optimizing it, it should be done. IF Sony is going to rewrite the XMB and integrate webkit, gstreamer and cairo into a desktop then I expect a delay as I believe that is going to be a big job with multiple versions passed to management for approval.

GDC 2011 information http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/27594660/ngp-gdc-2011-information

 

[jonabbey]

Why should Sony rewrite anything to use Cairo? The XMB, for pete's sake? They've got a working, efficient system.

Cairo is a decent basic rendering API, but Sony already has rendering APIs in their system. People have been doing rendering APIs for thirty years, now. The original Macintosh fit a decent rendering API, heck, fit everything into considerably less memory than is built into each SPE on the Cell processor.

If Sony releases a WebKit port to replace the NetFront browser on the PS3, I'll be right with you chanting hallelujah. But I promise you that the existence of Cairo (which is not used in the Chrome WebKit port, fwiw.. Cairo's not the only simple rendering library out there) will not factor into their decision making process as to whether or not to do that.

Calm down with all of this, Jeff. You're just driving yourself (and me, at least) crazy with your speculation, to no useful end.

If you want to know what Sony's going to do with future technical improvements to their system, I recommend you apply for a job with them. Otherwise, relax and wait to see with the rest of us.

Please.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Cairo is a decent basic rendering API, but Sony already has rendering APIs in their system. People have been doing rendering APIs for thirty years, now. The original Macintosh fit a decent rendering API, heck, fit everything into considerably less memory than is built into each SPE on the Cell processor.

I have to agree wtih you. Having taken a moment to find out what Cairo and Gtk+ etc. are, I realise they are nothing of consequence regards web-based interfaces. They are just graphics libraries. As you say, anyone could use these, or write their own to render the same graphics (eg. Sony could write their own Flash renderer if they wanted). They aren't any indicator that Sony is going particular route, and certainly no indicator whatsoever that XMB is getting a complete overhaul.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Why should Sony rewrite anything to use Cairo? The XMB, for pete's sake? They've got a working, efficient system.

Cairo is a decent basic rendering API, but Sony already has rendering APIs in their system. People have been doing rendering APIs for thirty years, now. The original Macintosh fit a decent rendering API, heck, fit everything into considerably less memory than is built into each SPE on the Cell processor.

If Sony releases a WebKit port to replace the NetFront browser on the PS3, I'll be right with you chanting hallelujah. But I promise you that the existence of Cairo (which is not used in the Chrome WebKit port, fwiw.. Cairo's not the only simple rendering library out there) will not factor into their decision making process as to whether or not to do that.

Calm down with all of this, Jeff. You're just driving yourself (and me, at least) crazy with your speculation, to no useful end.

If you want to know what Sony's going to do with future technical improvements to their system, I recommend you apply for a job with them. Otherwise, relax and wait to see with the rest of us.

Please.

1) "Why should Sony rewrite anything to use Cairo? The XMB, for pete's sake? They've got a working, efficient system." To reduce the size of the Kernel, to add features to the XMB surface like stationary widgets above the XMB, to provide user configurable sub menus, to add HTML5 UIs and more.

2) "Cairo's not the only simple rendering library out there" I'd disagree with the "simple" part and stress that it's a SVG renderer that the industry has accepted as a standard.

IBM article, page 20 of the HTML5 thread

A significant design decision in cairo is to support nearly identical output to the greatest extent possible. This consistent output lends itself exceptionally well for GUI toolkit programming, or cross-platform application development. The ability to print a screen at high resolution, and draw on the screen contents with the same drawing library has obvious advantages.

An added benefit to the vector nature of cairo drawing is that vector images tend to be smaller in size. This is because a relatively large amount of information can be encoded in a relatively small equation. The beauty of vector drawing is that the drawing tends to be relatively straightforward. The onus of actually converting the points, lines, and their associated equations into something you can see rests on the drawing library.

As mentioned previously, several graphics toolkits provide bindings to make cairo development even easier. Gtk+ versions newer than 2.8 contain full support for cairo, and cairo has been selected as the strategic drawing system to support future GTK releases. Additionally, toolkits like GNUstep and FLTK are beginning to support cairo for their graphics rendering needs.

Cairo makes perfect sense to select as your drawing API if you plan on doing anything cross-platform that requires low-level control of drawing operations and compositing. And if you want to have the cross-platform capabilities but do not want to draw at a low level, there are some other convenience drawing libraries that sit on top of cairo. Cairo-Clutter

Applications of cairo in the wild:

A large number of influential open source projects have jumped on the cairo bandwagon, and cairo has positioned itself to be a huge player in the Linux graphics space. Some of the more influential projects that are already embracing cairo are:

Gtk+, everyone's favorite cross platform graphics toolkit
Pango, a Free Software library for laying out and rendering text, with emphasis on internationalization
Gnome, a Free Software desktop environment
Mozilla, cross-platform Web browser infrastructure on which Firefox is based
OpenOffice.org, a free software office suite comparable to Microsoft Office

Cairo, Cairo-Pango, Gstreamer (Gstreamer with Cairo bindings coming), Javascript with Cairo bindings, Lua with Cairo bindings and SQLite are a lock for a Webkit port to the PS3 (some already in the PS3)

The questions I and others (Shifty) have had about the lack of application support in the multi-media side of the PS3 and also supported with the Qriocity release for the PS3 that uses open source libraries from 1999 without graphics acceleration (121 megs to play music) are answered only if Sony is waiting for Cairo and other libraries coming with webkit to provide applications for the PS3. Implied in that and desktop remote for the NGP is a rewrite for the XMB to use Cairo.

Are we orphans or is a major rewrite coming, are we in the middle of a rewrite? "re-architected display model and backend based on Cairo" All applications rewritten to use the Cairo graphic library; Home on the PS3, Javascript engine, more coming.

Many PS3 owners have gone negative and assume Sony has abandoned them, a new browser is not coming and Linux removal had no good reason (Sony just likes to be mean). Your IF webkit is coming is an example. Why the IF when in the previous post it's confirmed? When you add to that statements from Sony employees that we would have the ability to view 3-D inside a browser within a year (now 2 months overdue) it's a lock. Cairo and Cairo-webkit just went stable release Jan-Feb 2011.

Or assume that Sony won't rewrite the XMB because it works when the mentioned by Shifty ecosystem wars are coming and Sony MUST have a ecosystem that works together and impresses potential buyers.

I may be over the top because no one else is doing the work to find out if we are orphans (I had doubts too). These questions have no definite answer unless "you work for Sony" and as Shifty said; "There is no Sony published feature timetable.". We can only speculate given the meager information we can gather. Internally I believe there is as the SNAP developer program mentioned Cairo 5 months before a stable release, one month before the HTML5 javascript engine with Cairo bindings was released . Sony Network Application Programming Why was it put on hold? Possibly because they are waiting for the libraries to be included in all Sony networked products or New Cairo GUI toolkits to be written (IBM Quote above).

And Shifty, Lua with Cairo bindings means that the Lua Home client (resources) are ecosystem ready. So with Cairo on the NGP or Android platform, the home client, NGP, PS3, Phone, Tablet or whatever can SVG fit the resources for the Home client to the screen size of the platform. When you add that to the way Home handles Hard Disk cache like SD memory what do you get?

Edit: I don't think anyone is getting it. All applications are getting a rewrite using Cairo. "re-architected display model and backend based on Cairo"
1) Because it's an industry standard
2) It is an ecosystem standard (SVG graphics)
3) It results in more efficient and smaller applications
4) With everything based on Cairo the kernel and memory footprint can be smaller.
5) IP is more easily portable
6) System fonts are going to be Cairo-Pongo
7) Cairo-Gstreamer allows manipulation of Video

The key is webkit, since cairo has to be resident for everything webkit related, which I assume is going to be a big part of the XMB, cairo and Cairo-pongo have to be in the kernel. It does not make sense in a resource limited console to have multiple font engines or bitmap graphics and display libraries in the kernel and memory at the same time.

I'm repeating what I have already provided in an attempt to insure clarity. Beyond this point it's a prove it issue, we might get an announcement at E3 6 weeks from now.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The questions I and others (Shifty) have had about the lack of application support in the multi-media side of the PS3 and also supported with the Qriocity release for the PS3 that uses open source libraries from 1999 without graphics acceleration (121 megs to play music) are answered only if Sony is waiting for Cairo and other libraries coming with webkit to provide applications for the PS3.

These libraries aren't needed though. Sony can put together their own vector-based rendering engine. The only thing that's needed is a data protocol to access media. The code on the device that displays that media can be completely proprietary.

Or assume that Sony won't rewrite the XMB because it works when the mentioned by Shifty ecosystem wars are coming and Sony MUST have a ecosystem that works together and impresses potential buyers.

But they already have a PS3 system that runs applications and dynamic themes and integrates with their current PSN system. The only thing needed on PS3 for a content ecosystem are suitable apps, which can be written in native C++, or written in a cross-platform high-level language with an engine on PS3 that's called from the existing XMB. There's no need for a complete system frontend update just to add a few more multimedia functions. eg. LoveFilm can be a web based app calling Webkit from XMB, without XMB needing to be Webkit based.

I may be over the top because no one else is doing the work to find out if we are orphans.

I'd say that's because they know the difference between worthwhile, productive investigation, and shooting-in-the-dark. A lot of your search for connections isn't providing real connections. There's also a point that hardly anyone else really cares! If PS3 gets a massive XMB update or not, it'll either happen or it won't. Trying to predict that now serves no purpose. If clues suggest a huge update is coming and people get excited, but it never happens, then that's pointless expectation for users. If an update is coming but people don't know about it yet, they'll hear in due course and then get excited. And that'll come from a Sony announcement, or a series of reliable rumours. Spending a year tracing every single connection to try and determine if PS3 will get a high level change (and finding your other stuff on the web you must have spent massive amounts of time on this) isn't considered a very productive use of one's time for many.

Now if you are a developer with a dream of an application that you want running on PS3 and Android phones, and you are trying to guess if a cross-platform system is coming to PS3 so you can get in early and reap the benefits, I can see the idea in trying to guess this. But it's a LOT of work for considerably unconvincing answers, and I doubt any developer would take such a gamble. Especially when Sony's official position is they are producing their own cross-platform engine, and any dev would at this point be thinking maybe of targeting PSS for their cross-device application.

There just doesn't seem any value beyond curiosity in trying to determine what's going on with PS3's system at the moment, hence the complete lack of enthusiasm or contributions from other board members.

Or putting it another way, what happens when you either prove or disprove PS3 is going to get an XMB update?

 

[jeff_rigby]

Zooming User Interface

A ZUI is a type of graphical user interface (GUI). Information elements appear directly on an infinite virtual desktop (usually created using vector graphics), instead of in windows. Users can pan across the virtual surface in two dimensions and zoom into objects of interest. For example, as you zoom into a text object it may be represented as a small dot, then a thumbnail of a page of text, then a full-sized page and finally a magnified view of the page.

ZUIs use zooming as the main metaphor for browsing through hyperlinked or multivariate information. Objects present inside a zoomed page can in turn be zoomed themselves to reveal further detail, allowing for recursive nesting and an arbitrary level of zoom.

Apple's iPhone (premiered June 2007) uses a stylized form of ZUI, in which panning and zooming are performed through a touch interface

sonys high res image enlargement engine gives infinite zoom/ September 9, 2009

This pan’n'zoom effect, which gives Playstation products an easy, seamless way to navigate mindbendingly huge images, is part of a new library that’ll be seeding out to developers before too long, though it’s not clear exactly what for. It’s a novel way to navigate a brochure, or a massive, stitched panorama, or even a comic-strip-type storyboard, and the addition zoom-triggered video content gives it a discernible advantage over similar technologies we’ve seen before, but how exactly could you incorporate this into a game?

Industry standard SVG graphics are now with the Cairo library (GT5 had to wait for SVG to be released on the PS3 for it's infinite Zoom car database) possible on the PS3. ps3-firmware-the-real-cause-of-gran-turismo-5s-delay, authors speculation that it was DRM related is most likely wrong. PS3 firmware 3.5 included the HTML5 javascript engine which required Cairo and Cairo bindings.

Cairo was required for the HTML5 javascript engine
is being used by GT5 for the Infinite Zoom picture database of cars
Home's Lua client is now using Cairo (results in a smaller application size, more shader features and resolution/platform independence)

IF the XMB is rewritten to be Cairo based, or any screen having cairo support or "Cairo surface" then any object on the screen or the entire screen can be zoomed or "infinite zoomed". If done properly, this is an example of a killer feature needed by Sony to differentiate it'self in the coming ecosystem wars.

The Netfront browser and the picture viewer includes a similar zoom feature which I believe will with firmware 4.0 be part of all XMB applications and the XMB. Future picture viewer applications and the webkit browser will use the Cairo library rather than including their own SVG routines. Besides Cairo being an industry standard SVG library it will become the PS3s SVG library. "re-architected display model and backend based on Cairo."

The strength of the PS3 Cell SPU is VECTOR calculations as in SVG graphics! "Play up to your strengths."

I'd speculate that internally Sony programmers are really excited about moving to SVG. The email from Geoff specified Cairo...why? He could have left that out which would be the typical Sony no information policy. Researching Cairo features fills in HOW GT5 did the infinite zoom car database and points to speculation on coming PS3 and ecosystem features.

Shifty; this is turning into a Cairo and what it makes possible thread in part because Cairo features are what makes multiple and attractive new features in the XMB possible. The same could be said for Gstreamer and coming multi-media features like open source standards for video and audio conferencing between multiple platforms; that's also I believe coming (Collabora Gstreamer, D-bus website).

Without knowing these libraries are in the PS3 and understanding what they do, any speculation threads touching on the areas these libraries are used would be and were extremely wild .

 

[Shifty Geezer]

IF the XMB is rewritten to be Cairo based, or any screen having cairo support or "Cairo surface" then any object on the screen or the entire screen can be zoomed or "infinite zoomed". If done properly, this is an example of a killer feature needed by Sony to differentiate it'self in the coming ecosystem wars.

And if Sony write a Zoomer app for PS3, that same content can be used in PS3 as is without needing an XMB rewrite.

 

[jeff_rigby]

And if Sony write a Zoomer app for PS3, that same content can be used in PS3 as is without needing an XMB rewrite.

Yes it can, no change to the XMB is a possible. A Cairo XMB rewrite but looking and feeling exactly the same is, I think, the most probable default XMB. This will result in a smaller kernel and memory usage with all PS3 applications using Cairo. It will also allow an easier implementation for remote desktop between the PS3 and NGP. PS3 to Android remote desktop is less likely but possible with Skia and again easier with Cairo in Android platforms.

Other speculated uses for SVG graphics as in Multiple XMB versions or features that lay in wait for different controllers and the XMB being a "Cairo surface" is also possible and the thrust of this thread. A XMB that looks and feels the same but has zoom ability (known as two finger pinch and expand on Android and iOS) and subsections with HTML5 UI and Cloud computing is also possible.

wireless-keyboard-features-magical-multitouch-trackpad/

Behold the future (of keyboards). New from far away lands comes this $69 wireless slim keyboard with “Smart TouchPad.” See that touchpad in the lower right corner there? It’s a multitouch trackpad that switches to a ten-key number pad — like magic!

The multitouch feature registers a series of two- and three-finger presses for scrolling, zooming, window switching, tapping, and more. The entire keyboard is less than 3/4 of an inch thick and includes 18 hotkeys for launching various programs. The wireless USB adapter snaps into the bottom of the keyboard if you want to travel with it. Might make a good keyboard for a Media Center PC or for people who prefer trackpads over mice.

With the above $69.00 wireless USB keyboard with multi-touch keypad/touchpad and a rewritten XMB, a PS3 can be controlled similar to but not quite as easily as a LCD touch screen allows. I believe the XMB will support this and of course a NGP remote desktop two finger touchscreen control of the PS3 XMB.

Edit: This has been available for 2 years, gesh, am I out of the loop. Do a search for wireless multi-touch keyboard and you get multiple results. This is mainly Multi-media PC and iOS driven...gee multi-media, isn't Sony a multi-media company?

This product is a must for Google TV and webkit enabled CE platforms. Firefox is supporting multi-touch.