How can an American console company succeed in Japan *spinoff

[Silent_Buddha]

So I can go by what people on forums claim, or I can go by what natives have been telling me for years. On the one hand I'd like to not believe it. On the other hand Japan is also the only nation I know of where there are entire areas in which foreigners are not even allowed to go in. Does Saudi Arabia even have that? Not sure. But ultimately it's really telling when a Japanese friend will warn me that if I visit Japan that I need to avoid such and such areas because they don't allow foreigners, or to avoid such and such restaurants because I'll sit there forever since they don't serve foreigners, etc... Hence the xenophobia claims really don't seem all that far fetched to me.

It's interesting you bring up the no-foreigners allowed parts of Japan. It's quite true even to this day. Although, here's the kicker. Foreign workers are allowed in some of those areas as long as they are either menial workers (cooks, janitors, etc.), young and attractive women who will do whatever is asked, and older women who run the establishments employing the just mentioned workers.

My mother ran one of those exclusive High Class companion karaoke bars. in the mid 80's through the late 90's and still has contacts in that area. That's where I got to drink with many Japanese businessmen (construction company owners, etc.) and CEO's (Konica, Toshiba, Minolta, Sony to name a few). I got a lot of free product from those companies also as they tried to win favor with my mother. If you ever want to make a good impressioin and/or eventually want to ask a favor of a Japanese businessman, make sure to give gifts...often.

As well there's certainly more low class areas that can be quite dangerous for foreigners.

Anyway, the disdain for Foreigners, especially other Asians, permeates the society from the top to the bottom. Interestingly as time has gone on, the greatest acceptance of non-Japanese Asians as anything other than lower lifeforms is in the manual labor job segment.

It's to the point where some Japanese workers can admit that other Asians work just as hard as Japanese workers (in manual labor), but still won't allow them to be in charge even if they are regarded as the best worker for that particular job. And non-Japanese Asians are more common in the labor industry (construction, recycling, etc.) now than they were in the 80's (almost non-existant).

And that thinking extends to product purchasing also. Just like they can accept some exceptional foreigners as almost equals, they can occasionally accept exceptional non-iconic foreign product as worthy of purchase.

Regards,
SB

 

[AmFreak]

If that were true, wouldn't more people go with ps3? I thought it had more shooters.

Sure, but I'm just countering the typical "oh if you like shooters you go 360" comments since if it were really all about shooters, then the ps3 would be doing better. Regarding type of audience, given that Sony has poured millions into exclusive shooters for the ps3, I have to assume that they have done the research and determined that shooters are important to their audience.

I don't think the PS3 has more shooters. Close to every 3rd Party Shooter is multiplat. And then you get a few exceptions that are only available for 360 like Metro or Sniper. On one side you have Halo and Gears on the other you have Killzone and Resistance. That's 5 on 360 and 3 (or 4 if u count in MAG) on PS3. And what matters is quality and not quantity, no one would buy a console with 100 shooters if they were all crap. Just look at the sales, i would guess 8-9 out of the 10 most sold games on 360 are shooters. The only non shooter game i see in the Top10 is GTA.

Well I don't mean for me, you or anyone, I mean the numbers game. Just count up how much is available on each, quite the difference. There is less variety of gaming available on ps3 if you have the full Live experience, which we know Europeans don't get from what they have mentioned here on this forum. Hence why now I'm curious if Japan is in the same boat. That would explain a lot if it was true. A console can't hope to win a region if it artificially restricts it's content in that region.

I would agree with you that on download games the 360 has a small edge, but i don't see an edge in full priced games.

 

[patsu]

It's interesting you bring up the no-foreigners allowed parts of Japan. It's quite true even to this day. Although, here's the kicker. Foreign workers are allowed in some of those areas as long as they are either menial workers (cooks, janitors, etc.), young and attractive women who will do whatever is asked, and older women who run the establishments employing the just mentioned workers.

Indonesia, Borneo and Malaysia advocate Muslim cultures and have some policies that give preferential treatment to Muslims (especially Malays).

India has its caste-based baggages.

Greater China and Japan are both nationalistic. In China, city dwellers may look down on rural folks, etc.

Singaporeans, Japanese delegate "dirty" work to foreign labors.

You can find successful US products in all of these countries. Being xenophobic and buying products that suit their needs are 2 different things. They may even love the food or products in other "lowly" countries.
[size=-2]In general, it's unlikely to find Americans doing "lowly" work in Japan or other Asian countries anyway. They are too spoilt.[/size]

EDIT: And about talking to Japanese CEOs in karaoke bars etc., if they're worth their salt, who would complain to an "outsider" about their hardship at work ? ^_^
They are there to relax. You won't get the full picture.

I am beginning to think some of the people here should travel more, and may be play less games. This conversation kinda worries me about the future my son will face.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I don't think the PS3 has more shooters. Close to every 3rd Party Shooter is multiplat. And then you get a few exceptions that are only available for 360 like Metro or Sniper. On one side you have Halo and Gears on the other you have Killzone and Resistance. That's 5 on 360 and 3 (or 4 if u count in MAG) on PS3. And what matters is quality and not quantity, no one would buy a console with 100 shooters if they were all crap. Just look at the sales, i would guess 8-9 out of the 10 most sold games on 360 are shooters. The only non shooter game i see in the Top10 is GTA.

Don't forget Fable II.

As well, while they are 3rd person, I'd still consider Uncharted, MGS, and Resident Evil 4&5 (more shooter than survival horror at this point) shooters. Same goes for GTA IV, I'd consider that a shooter also.

Expand it out to top 20 and distribution becomes more even. Push it out to 1 million+ sellers and it becomes more even still with greater variety actually shifting over to X360. PS3 doesn't even have a 1 million+ selling Card game, boxing game, or fighting game for example. Expand it out to all games, and I'm sure there's pretty equal variety on both platforms.

I'd say both platforms have great variety at this point.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Indonesia, Borneo and Malaysia advocate Muslim cultures and have some policies that give preferential treatment to Muslims (especially Malays).

India has its caste-based baggages.

Greater China and Japan are both nationalistic. In China, city dwellers may look down on rural folks, etc.

Singaporeans, Japanese delegate "dirty" work to foreign labors.

You can find successful US products in all of these countries. Being xenophobic and buying products that suit their needs are 2 different things. They may even love the food or products in other "lowly" countries.
[size=-2]In general, it's unlikely to find Americans doing "lowly" work in Japan or other Asian countries anyway. They are too spoilt.[/size]

EDIT: And about talking to Japanese CEOs in karaoke bars etc., if they're worth their salt, who would complain to an "outsiders" about their hardship at work ? ^_^
They are there to relax. You won't get the full picture.

Well, I'm not going to change your mind no matter what. And I obviously can only speak for the US, Taiwan and Japan with regards to what the actual public and businessmen think of foreign people and foreign product.

But with regards to those, the US is by far the most accepting of product not originating in the parent country. Taiwan is close but still has some area's where it is disdainful of foreign products and people (VERY mixed feelings towards mainland China for example). With Japan being in a class completely by itself.

And that is with people and businessmen from and in those respective countries. IE - not Japanese people working or going to school in the US for example. Those tend to be far more tolerant than Japanese that rarely leave the country for anything other than vacations.

If you have a hard time believing people (not just me) that live extended periods of time with extensive contacts in each of those countries, well, nothing we can say will ever change your views.

For the other countries I have to rely on experiences by other contacts, so that varies depending on what points they are trying to make. So thinks like Korea of being relatively in the middle, very nationalistic and protectionist but also very open to certain foreign products is purely based on experiences as relayed to me.

Regards,
SB

 

[patsu]

If you have a hard time believing people (not just me) that live extended periods of time with extensive contacts in each of those countries, well, nothing we can say will ever change your views.

None of those tell me they won't buy good US products though, which is the original point. In fact, we have seen counter examples (e.g., Monster Hunter causing a jump in 360 console sales temporarily, almost to the level of PS3). The xenophobia discussion is a red herring.

 

[corduroygt]

There are certain products unique to each market that won't be understandable in another country though. For example, pickup trucks in the USA. There are just as good, if not better and more reliable options from Nissan and Toyota, but they don't sell nearly as well as the Fords and Chevys. It's a brand name thing. Nintendo and Sony are very powerful brand names in Japan. Microsoft not as much.

 

[TheChefO]

None of those tell me they won't buy good US products though, which is the original point. In fact, we have seen counter examples (e.g., Monster Hunter causing a jump in 360 console sales temporarily, almost to the level of PS3). The xenophobia discussion is a red herring.

Perhaps xenophobia is a bit strong, but the preference for Japanese products over other equally compelling foreign devices is strikingly displayed in the Japanese sales figures versus every other region in the world.

 

[patsu]

Perhaps xenophobia is a bit strong, but the preference for Japanese products over other equally compelling foreign devices is strikingly displayed in the Japanese sales figures versus every other region in the world.

They have been trained by Japanese brands since birth. If they can't tell the difference (i.e., equally compelling products), there's no reason for them to switch. And that preference is a perception that can be changed over time (See the examples above), but it may take time.

 

[AlphaWolf]

There are certain products unique to each market that won't be understandable in another country though. For example, pickup trucks in the USA. There are just as good, if not better and more reliable options from Nissan and Toyota, but they don't sell nearly as well as the Fords and Chevys. It's a brand name thing. Nintendo and Sony are very powerful brand names in Japan. Microsoft not as much.

I just want to say I strongly disagree on your comment about trucks.

 

[corduroygt]

I just want to say I strongly disagree on your comment about trucks.

Which part of it do you disagree with? You don't think Toyota and Nissan make trucks just as good as the Ford and Chevy, but they sell a lot less? Their passenger cars have no problems selling, but it's a different story with trucks.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Which part of it do you disagree with? You don't think Toyota and Nissan make trucks just as good as the Ford and Chevy, but they sell a lot less? Their passenger cars have no problems selling, but it's a different story with trucks.

We could argue all day about quality (I'd say similar, not "as good or better") but I'll just say they don't make anywhere near the variety of any of the NA companies. Toyota makes 1 full size truck basically. Ford has 3+. GM 3+, Dodge 3+.

 

[AmFreak]

Don't forget Fable II.

As well, while they are 3rd person, I'd still consider Uncharted, MGS, and Resident Evil 4&5 (more shooter than survival horror at this point) shooters. Same goes for GTA IV, I'd consider that a shooter also.

Expand it out to top 20 and distribution becomes more even. Push it out to 1 million+ sellers and it becomes more even still with greater variety actually shifting over to X360. PS3 doesn't even have a 1 million+ selling Card game, boxing game, or fighting game for example. Expand it out to all games, and I'm sure there's pretty equal variety on both platforms.

I'd say both platforms have great variety at this point.

Regards,
SB

My post wasn't about variety. It was to show alot of people bought a 360 because of shooters. When 9 of the 10 most selling games are shooters, i think it's clear that shooters are a big selling point for most peoples who bought a 360.

 

[RobertR1]

Sports games sell well on the 360 also. The angle you need to examine here is that social interaction games that compliment XBox Live tend to sell well on the 360. They just so happen to be shooters and sports games with a strong MP following. Western RPG's tend to do well also (Fable/Fallout/Oblivion/Mass Effect)

 

[corduroygt]

We could argue all day about quality (I'd say similar, not "as good or better") but I'll just say they don't make anywhere near the variety of any of the NA companies. Toyota makes 1 full size truck basically. Ford has 3+. GM 3+, Dodge 3+.

When comparing the F150 to the Tundra or the Silverado to the Titan, That's all one model. We're not talking about the bigger trucks, and the Silverado and F150 still vastly outsell the Japanese competition.

It's also a well known quantity that japanese vehicles hold up the best in the long term, while short term all vehicles hold up decently. Look at the used truck prices and you'll see Toyota's command higher prices than the the Fords and Chevys.

 

[AlphaWolf]

It's also a well known quantity that japanese vehicles hold up the best in the long term, while short term all vehicles hold up decently. Look at the used truck prices and you'll see Toyota's command higher prices than the the Fords and Chevys.

myth. Ford full size trucks actually have the best blue book values.

 

[corduroygt]

myth. Ford full size trucks actually have the best blue book values.

Edmunds TCO calculator shows that the Tundra has the least depreciation, followed by the Ford, and then the Chevy.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Edmunds TCO calculator shows that the Tundra has the least depreciation, followed by the Ford, and then the Chevy.

So apparently they disagree with blue book. Whatever. This is getting far afield of useful for this thread.

 

[AzBat]

Back on topic...

Somebody asked about the variety of downloadable games in the US vs Japan. Here are the downloadable Xbox games...

US
Games On Demand 186
Xbox Live Arcade 338
Xbox Live Indie Games 1473

Japan
Games On Demand 87
Xbox Live Arcade 266
Xbox Live Indie Games 1371

I tried to do the same for the PS3, but the way the Playstation Store is set up I wasn't sure if I was finding the exact number of downloadable games. For the US I selected "Narrow by Downloadable". For Japan, I selected used Google Translate & selected "Download-Only Titles Show Only". Anyway, here's what I found & I'm sure if I'm wrong I'll be swiftly corrected.

US
PS3 Games 289
Greatest Hits 2
PSOne Classics 114

Japan
PS3 Games 687

I wouldn't trust these numbers outright since I found a few trials & demos listed in them. So I'm not sure if you could do an accurate Apples-to-Apples comparison of PS3 downloadable games just by going by their websites.

Tommy McClain

 

[2real4tv]

There more tech in the ps3 why wouldn't they choose ps3 over 360. If you want the total multimedia package too me its a no brainer to go with the ps3.