How can an American console company succeed in Japan *spinoff

[draconian]

While the birth rate in Japan is declining (as they are in most of the top tier Western countries including America), that hardly makes the market irrelevant. Especially for the Japanese companies that make the games many of us like to play.

While it's true that Japan is relatively irrelevant with regards to non-Japanese developed games, it's still extremely relevant to Square-Enix, Capcom, Konami, etc. who get a large chunk of their revenue from the Japanese market. Some of them still get the majority of their revenue from the Japanese market, which allows them to attempt titles that are more suited to the western market.

I'd wager, Japan is probably more relevant than the majority of EU countries, but noone is suggesting companies stop trying to sell consoles in Poland or Denmark for example.

Regards,
SB

No one is saying to stop selling in Japan, but one of the reasons why MS tries harder in japan is to court Japanese developers. Courting Japanese game developers is becoming more and more irrelevant. The demographics are changing and the number of talented Japanese people willing to stay in the game industry is going to get tougher in economy with shrinking demographics and low unemployment ~ 5.3%. Expect to see a continual drop in quality games from Japan.


As for Xenophobia, I don't see what microsoft could do to overcome this. That's just a fact of the business. Xenophobia/nationalism/patriotism is certainly of the one reasons why the xbox does poorly in Japan, it's also one of the reasons why it does so well in the US. Maybe MS could make a documentary that was very sympathetic to the victims of the atomic bomb and broadcast/tie it to xbox? Don't know how much that would help, but it couldn't hurt.

 

[GuestLV]

rename from Xbox to something else

Dreamcast(box)360

 

[liolio]

Without any studios of their own, it's just that. Some games from some japaneese big names.

Sure, the 360 might be fine hardware at a nice entry-pricepoint, but the game-portofolio from a consumer-standpoint in Japan is at a distant last place, and I don't think that's just because of xenophobia, it might have something to do, that Microsoft don't aim for that market at the moment.

Those japaneese people who 'jumped in' back then when they got Lost Odyssey, and Blue Dragon in a span of two years; don't you think they would have liked better if MS had started up two or three of their own studios wich could make more games targeted them, so they got something else to play, besides those two-three JRPG's wich Mistwalker commisioned?

All I can think of the last two years, is a couple of shmups and a idolmaster-game wich were console-exclusive 360-games in Japan, so perhaps those who took a wait and see aproach before jumping in, weren't necesarilly doing it because of xenophobia.
But because they didn't thrust MS to provide them with more games.

Excuse me but that blabla, why no japenese studio that sell mostly in Japan pushed out something in Japan? MS has to subsidize for every game over there? On top of it it's easier to get good result out of the 360, development would been than on the PS3.
It's non sense.
I'm still waiting for some one to clearly state those two don't know what they are talking about, or that simply the fact that they have to talk about it is irrelevant..
http://kotaku.com/5442274/square-enix-says-japanese-retail-prejudiced-against-western-games
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-09-03-capcoms-keiji-inafune-interview?page=3

 

[AmFreak]

I'm still waiting for some one to clearly state those two don't know what they are talking about, or that simply the fact that they have to talk about it is irrelevant..
http://kotaku.com/5442274/square-enix-says-japanese-retail-prejudiced-against-western-games
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-09-03-capcoms-keiji-inafune-interview?page=3

Even they don't come to the same conclusion. One says it's the people, the other one says it's the retailers and not the players ...
And the games mentioned in the link are really weak examples, they don't not sell cause they are made by us citizens, they don't sell cause they are shooters. There is a reason there aren't many shooters from japanese companys you know ?

 

[liolio]

I don't care for this damned thread, it should have been closed for ages, it's a recipient for stealth trolling... There are a lot more interesting stuff goning on on this forum whether it's in mobil tech forum or standard GPUs. Point is both articles covers lot the reasons behind the failure of the 360 in Japan.
None are dumb enough to speak about Japanese, they are their costumers first, and more importantly video gamer audience is "stupid" and like to rely on xenophobia has an argument or a counter-argument to support whatever brand they like or their POV. It's over simplification at his best, worse it's dangerous. As I stated from the very beginning this thread will go nowhere and I was right.

As for the obvious stealth trolling about FPS = 360... well it's not even worse a report...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't care for this damned thread, it should have been closed for ages, it's a recipient for stealth trolling... There are a lot more interesting stuff goning on on this forum whether it's in mobil tech forum or standard GPUs. Point is both articles covers lot the reasons behind the failure of the 360 in Japan.
None are dumb enough to speak about Japanese, they are their costumers first, and more importantly video gamer audience is "stupid" and like to rely on xenophobia has an argument or a counter-argument to support whatever brand they like or their POV. It's over simplification at his best, worse it's dangerous. As I stated from the very beginning this thread will go nowhere and I was right.

As for the obvious stealth trolling about FPS = 360... well it's not even worse a report...

You have entirely the wrong view. You don't combat xenophobia and prejudices by ignoring it and not talking about it. If some people's opinions are, as you believe, grounded in prejudice, then if you don't try to point out where they are wrong, you are only allowing their views to perpetuate.

You need to turn your emotional energy against what you see as an injustice into a constructive challenge to that injustice.

 

[zed]

has anyone mentioned why the PSP seems to sell well there (in fact handhelds dominate the market software wise) unlike anywhere else in the world to my knowledge.
This is just another FACT that saiz japs have different tastes than western ppl WRT gaming

 

[tuna]

has anyone mentioned why the PSP seems to sell well there (in fact handhelds dominate the market software wise) unlike anywhere else in the world to my knowledge.
This is just another FACT that saiz japs have different tastes than western ppl WRT gaming

People like to play Monster Hunter together in Japan.

 

[dobwal]

You have entirely the wrong view. You don't combat xenophobia and prejudices by ignoring it and not talking about it. If some people's opinions are, as you believe, grounded in prejudice, then if you don't try to point out where they are wrong, you are only allowing their views to perpetuate.

You need to turn your emotional energy against what you see as an injustice into a constructive challenge to that injustice.

That may be true if your whole purpose is to point out the fallacy in their mindset for their benefit. Its hardly encouraging when your intention is to sell them a product. They are going to be smart to your intention and will understand that ultimately you are looking out for your own benefit not theirs. Its not a scenario thats going to motivate them to change.

The last thing a business should do is point out the fallacies of potential customers. The best thing a motivated business should do is produce a quality product and provide ample exposure with the hope that over time those potential customers see the value of that product.

Its not like the Japanese success in today's American market was the result of them lecturing the American public about our prejudices of foreign products up until the 80s. All it took was taking advantage of the 1973 oil embargo and producing smaller more efficient cars that US car makers were slow to introduce. We have accepted Japanese products because they took the time and effort to provide more value in their products by creating a competitive edge.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That may be true if your whole purpose is to point out the fallacy in their mindset for their benefit. Its hardly encouraging when your intention is to sell them a product. They are going to be smart to your intention and will understand that ultimately you are looking out for your own benefit not theirs. Its not a scenario thats going to motivate them to change.

I was talking solely about liolio's position in this thread, that the thread shouldn't have happened because of people's attitudes. It's precisely because of people's attitudes that we need threads to make things right! If we just avoid a subject because people don't know what they're talking about, then those people will never know what they're talking about.

Not that I agree with his POV regards attitiudes towards the Japanese. I have no opinion on what Japanesse culture is liek or how right/wrong others sentiments are.

 

[dobwal]

I was talking solely about liolio's position in this thread, that the thread shouldn't have happened because of people's attitudes. It's precisely because of people's attitudes that we need threads to make things right! If we just avoid a subject because people don't know what they're talking about, then those people will never know what they're talking about.

Not that I agree with his POV regards attitiudes towards the Japanese. I have no opinion on what Japanesse culture is liek or how right/wrong others sentiments are.

My bad. I agree with your point.

I'll add this point to the overall topic. MS's console effort has not been failure in Japan in my opinion. I never understood the #1 or failed mindset when it comes to console sales. The Xbox as a platform has increased sales 200% from the Xbox1 to the 360. Xenophobic attitudes do not change overnight. Furthermore, xenophobia, which we are all guilty of at some point in time, is not the only thing that has made it difficult for MS to crack the Japanese market. The japanese gov't nor the japanese distribution model is known to be all that friendly towards foreign products. You can't totally blame it on the japanese consumer.

 

[zed]

People like to play Monster Hunter together in Japan.

thats a single title(yes its huge in japan, bugger all elsewhere) but its not the sole reason, heres a few more well selling PSP titles

God Eater
Phantasy Star Portable 2
Shin Sangoku Musou MultiRaid [Dyansty Warriors Strikeforce]
Mobile Suit Gundam: Gundam vs Gundam Next Plus
Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology 2
Jikkyou Powerful Pro Portable 4
Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep
Pro Baseball Spirits 2010

why didnt these sell well in the west? xenophobia or just different tastes (perhaps some werent available havent checked)

heres the 5 best selling ps3 titles of the first 6 months this year in order

Yakuza 4
Hokuto Musou
Resident Evil 5 Gold Edition
Final Fantasy XIII
End of Eternity

of those only 2 done well in the west, wheres all the xbox360 japanese orientated titles?

 

[AlphaWolf]

heres the 5 best selling ps3 titles of the first 6 months this year in order

Yakuza 4
Hokuto Musou
Resident Evil 5 Gold Edition
Final Fantasy XIII
End of Eternity

of those only 2 done well in the west, wheres all the xbox360 japanese orientated titles?

you do realize 2 of those titles are also on the 360?

 

[KongRudi]

Excuse me but that blabla, why no japenese studio that sell mostly in Japan pushed out something in Japan? MS has to subsidize for every game over there? On top of it it's easier to get good result out of the 360, development would been than on the PS3.
It's non sense.
I'm still waiting for some one to clearly state those two don't know what they are talking about, or that simply the fact that they have to talk about it is irrelevant..
http://kotaku.com/5442274/square-enix-says-japanese-retail-prejudiced-against-western-games
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-09-03-capcoms-keiji-inafune-interview?page=3

I don't claim to hold all the answers. :-/
I just think blaming it on xenophobia is to easy.

You guys make it sound like it's the consumers job to make the company sell them products.. It's the other way around, it's the comapnies job to sell their products to consumers, if they don't succeed, they need to make the product better to make that consumer want to buy it.

I think it's more localisation problems, and cultural differences. Maybe the localisation of western games suck. :-/
Japaneese gamers seem to prefer more games with automatic camera, while we werstern would like to control that with right thumstick, so most games wich succeds in both markets have semi automatic camera, or optional control. :-/

I think japaneese retailers would sell everything they could to their customers, but it might be easier to sell games if they don't have to explain that this game is only available in english language, or if the games have really bad translation, to their customers - who dosn't necesarily understand English all that well.

Sure, they might be proud of their videogame-industry, but I doubt that they would avoid all the fun western games if they apealed to them. :-/

 

[Akumajou]

It just hit me!

MS needs to buy (or partner with) Nintendo.

Japan sales - solved
Casual market likes and dislikes - solved
handheld market (hello win mobile 7 games) - solved
broad software appeal - solved
Japanese developer support - solved
Iconic vg characters beyond master chief - solved

What Nintendo would get out of the deal:
Funding - solved
Network (live) - solved
Hardcore gamers - solved
Hardcore hardware - solved
Network services (netflix, facebook, zune, etc) - solved
Kinect (wii interface evolved) - solved


MS might want to wait it out for the price to get a bit better, but working something out before they drop wii2 would be a good idea.

That's how an American company can succeed in Japan.

If you were too see what you just said from outside of the USA (btw America is a continent...someone call Miss Teen USA) it would be be no wonder why people (not in Japan) would see another Arrogant American stereotype when refering to a US monopoly like Microsoft.

The reality behind your thinking would not hold water given the way Microsoft seems to have in breaking purchased developer's sense of identity basically Nintendo would become a shell or a shadow of its former self... then again not that you would give a care about Nintendo.

But MS started this gen in Japan with some Japanesse grown games from big Japanese names, and they didn't get very far. That's clearly not enough.

Again the AA rears its ugly head, that was a mistake, MS should have hired new talent to make new ip instead of going after big publishers/devs they were on the right track in a way with Xbox 1 but lets be realistic, there was no faith in that console and not so good faith has been established with the 360.

Without any studios of their own, it's just that. Some games from some japaneese big names.

Sure, the 360 might be fine hardware at a nice entry-pricepoint, but the game-portofolio from a consumer-standpoint in Japan is at a distant last place, and I don't think that's just because of xenophobia, it might have something to do, that Microsoft don't aim for that market at the moment.

Those japaneese people who 'jumped in' back then when they got Lost Odyssey, and Blue Dragon in a span of two years; don't you think they would have liked better if MS had started up two or three of their own studios wich could make more games targeted them, so they got something else to play, besides those two-three JRPG's wich Mistwalker commisioned?

All I can think of the last two years, is a couple of shmups and a idolmaster-game wich were console-exclusive 360-games in Japan, so perhaps those who took a wait and see aproach before jumping in, weren't necesarilly doing it because of xenophobia.
But because they didn't thrust MS to provide them with more games.

Has there been any discussion into how those early adopters in Japan felt when they eventually realized the quality of the product? basically noise, errors, lacking features the other consoles had since day one, having to pay for an online service that is flooded with first person and third person buff bro shooters, those Red Rings being experienced and the frustration that followed from a dead console... these things need to be considered before fingering xenophobia and the general belief that Microsoft's console is somehow entitled to sell bucket loads in Japan.

Dreamcast(box)360

Dreamcast has nothing to do with XBox 360 other than being rushed to market too soon after making excuses and dumping or pulling the plug out of the previous console extremely prematurely with false promises of cheap, easy to develop for power.

Excuse me but that blabla, why no japenese studio that sell mostly in Japan pushed out something in Japan? MS has to subsidize for every game over there? On top of it it's easier to get good result out of the 360, development would been than on the PS3.
It's non sense.
I'm still waiting for some one to clearly state those two don't know what they are talking about, or that simply the fact that they have to talk about it is irrelevant..
http://kotaku.com/5442274/square-enix-says-japanese-retail-prejudiced-against-western-games
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-09-03-capcoms-keiji-inafune-interview?page=3

The Microsoft strategy is more about taking all of those games that became famous on "PlayStation" brand console platform rather than generate their own its alot like a rich arrogant kid using money to become popular by buying the attention of your friends or fellow classmates.

All it has really done is disrupt the development of games traditionally developed on the "PlayStation" console that combined with generally western gaming media mentallity that every game HAS to have an online multiplayer mode or risk being penalized in the review scores and its no wonder why original or fresh gaming experiences are very rare or if they exist they get somehow black listed and panned with weasel review words like "difficult or hard"

I really do not undertand why Microsoft or their XBox 360 console needs to be entitled to dominate or sell everywhere, including Japan, its only going to do as good as it should and so far according to the numbers it has done well despite Microsoft rather arrogant policy of money buys your soul.

The quality of the console and then the games speak volumes specially considering the diversity by percentage and the freedom game developers would have instead of simply chasing money and where da money at and oh that "genre" sells lets make more of that mentality.

Similar problems or issues existed back the Xbox 1 days with seeminly less focus on innovating with variety of games so its no surprise that they have not changed their attitude.

Personally I was and still am (even though I eventually made a choice) dissappointed in how Microsoft simply and intentionally or even pourposely held back console technology by rushing gamers to buy into a new gen of consoles in 2005 when they clearly new all the details reguarding their XBox 1 misshaps, forcing Sony and Nintendo into "jumping in" or risk 2 plus years of a potentially different console market and this is clearly where the idea of xenophobia falls appart because both Wii and Playstation 3 are clear, competitive answers to a new console because neither Sony or Nintendo were going to risk the market.

If xenophobia really did exist in Japan then Sony would have clearly waited 3 to 4 years with Nintendo following suit as they were not going to risk exposing their card (wiimote) early and XBox 360 sales numbers would bet at one quater of their current Japan "established base" of currently active consoles.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Again the AA rears its ugly head.

"AA"? Arrogant American?

 

[Nesh]

Truth be told MS does have some "arrogant bully attitude" in the corporate world.

Some may remember since the MS vs Netscape days that MS was sending indirect or direct messages of a "thread" to competition. Sometimes even using some corporate psychological war.

I remember when MS threw a huge Internet Explorer logo in Netscapes fountain (I think Netscape was celebrating something that day? I cant remember).

Then I remember the attitude during the initial announcement of XBOX1 with Rock

And at PS3's launch in Paris we got a reennactment of the Netscape thing.
MS sending a boat with 360 logos at the huge PS3 event in Paris welcoming Sony for being late. The launch there was a disaster with few people ever appearing. (Some in the internet claimed that they were approached by some "men" to encourage people not to be there but take that with a grain of salt). MS also placed 360 chairs in various areas during the PS3 launch for the people waiting in line to buy one. There was again an internet site on the chairs where MS welcomed Sony for coming late.

This attitude is seen in a smaller scale during MS press conferences as well.

This is the "evil" corporate personality that in Europe some see in MS hence they are less elastic into buying 360 than in the USA. I guess that may be the consumer reaction in Japan as well considering that Sony is Japanese and MS is an arrogant thread from the USA.

Just guessing though

 

[KongRudi]

I remember when MS threw a huge Internet Explorer logo in Netscapes fountain (I think Netscape was celebrating something that day? I cant remember).

I couldn't care less of how companies treat eachother, some stuff like the 360-boat on PS3-launch, Crash-bandicoot calling out Mario with speakerphone at Nintendo-HQ, and Commodore putting huge 'Amiga - Atari will never get this far -billboard' outside Atari HQ are kind of funny.
I'd wish the companies cooperated abit more tough, when stuff like Mass Effect, Project Dark(Demon's Souls spiritual sequel) went multiplatform, it would be nothing wrong with having MS and Sony publish a game on their competitors platform, they would gain moeny, strengthen the game-brand, and consumers would get the full experience .
I don't see it happening tough.

As for the Netscape/IE battle, that's something I found highly annoying.
Netscape came with Navigator, Composer and lots of other cool stuff, and it were all free, we got a CD in the mail if we gave them our address.
MS developed IE and Frontpage, it were also free so it could compete with Netscape.
Then they bundled their solution with Windows, and when Netscape weren't a serious competitor anymore, because MS were bundled with Windows.
They started charging for Frontpage. I never choose a MS tool when I have options for that reason, never know when they want to steal money from my wallet.
Kind of the same with online-play, but most 360-people dosn't seem to mind paying them for that, they'll probably be abit more scpetic when they have to choose amongst three equally good services from all console-makers.

 

[AmFreak]

and Commodore putting huge 'Amiga - Atari will never get this far -billboard' outside Atari HQ are kind of funny.

Its was Commo Uk and Sega Uk HQ. It was for the CD32 and it was a reaction of the 90s Sega slogan "To be this good takes AGES, To be this good takes SEGA."

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/adverts/cd32_bb.jpg

I like it

 

[borowki]

I don't claim to hold all the answers. :-/
I just think blaming it on xenophobia is too easy.

Just adding my $0.02. I wouldn't use the word xenophobia myself, but I think we have to acknowledge the basic political reality. The video game industry came of age largely during Japan's two decades of economic stagnation. In 1990, the Japanese economy looked poised to catch up to the American one. Twenty years later, it has remained at the same level, now just a third of the American economy and continues to fade. In such an environment, we would be surprised if Japanese consumers don't show a preference for domestic products.

Perhaps if Microsoft manages to produce something that's significant better than Sony or Nintendo's offerings, then it can overcome the hindrance from national pride/angst. Given the nature of the technology involved though, much of which is commoditized, I don't see this happening.

In any event, the Chinese market will be more important in the long term. Microsoft will have an easier time there as Chinese taste is less eclectic and anti-Japanese sentiments run strong.