So if MS paid big bucks for exclusive key anime rights and made the XBox Life console the only place to get games based on key Japanese cultural phenomena, would it succeed in terms of massive adoption and ongoing software sales?
How can an American console company succeed in Japan *spinoff
- Thread starter joker454
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??? Sony's doing alright everywhere - they aren't being marginalised in any market where they'd need such 'drastic' measures. There was no problem getting PS1 or 2 into every western market, and PS3 is doing fine, just facing stiffer competition than its predecessors.
The question is what is limiting MS or other console companies doing well in Japan, and if it's about appealing to the audience thruofgh the right IP as some suggest, wouldn't securing the right IP be enough to establish the console? Let's say FF and DQ and Nariko and whatever other key gamer and youth-market audience IPs are secured as MS exclusives for the whole of next gen, would that ensure XBNext adoption or would everyone just abandon those franchises as they are on the wrong console?
The question is what is limiting MS or other console companies doing well in Japan, and if it's about appealing to the audience thruofgh the right IP as some suggest, wouldn't securing the right IP be enough to establish the console? Let's say FF and DQ and Nariko and whatever other key gamer and youth-market audience IPs are secured as MS exclusives for the whole of next gen, would that ensure XBNext adoption or would everyone just abandon those franchises as they are on the wrong console?
We'll need to look at the complete package.
If you're talking about one-off titles that are attractive to Japan. It'd be spikes like this:
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/07/02/x360_hardware_sales_surge/
If you're talking about one-off titles that are attractive to Japan. It'd be spikes like this:
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/07/02/x360_hardware_sales_surge/
They already tried that to a lesser extent this gen with getting the original FF producer's studio signed on for two exclusive JRPG's and breaking exclusivity on FF.
At this point, I don't think the market is worth the big bucks it would take to sway them into the xbox fold. In fact, it may become more desirable if it isn't available there.
Seriously though I think the best Idea I saw in this thread is partnering with a Japanese company on xbox720. Panasonic is a good candidate. Let them help with the industrial design. Let it be branded by them in Japan.
"Panasonic 720" or some such.
MS will get help in the much needed internal/external design of the console to avoid future RRoD issues, and might even get a sale or two in Japan out of it.
As i see it there are (aside from Nintendo) only 4 huge series left in the japanese market (i could miss something). These are FF, DQ, MH and Pokemon. If Ms had these titles exclusively, there is imho no doubt that sales would grow enormously. But all they got is like the 20th MH conversion (and even then they had a big sales spike for a few weeks). FF13 comes out a year after the PS3 Version. What also hurts them is that they are lacking japanese studios. A Nintendo or Sony buyer can at least count on Sony and Nintendo games if the console doesn't sale too well.
It's no surprise that the 360 gets pegged as a shooter only console, I just presume at this point though that it's by people that have never actually owned the console. Because when I power on my 360, the wealth of playable game demos and indie games available on it, both mainstream and quirky, dwarfs what is available on the ps3. I know from what I read by other posters here that very little of the content is available in Europe, which is perhaps what causes the confusion to guys like me that see how much more limited the ps3 content really is. So is it possible that in Japan it's the same situation, where most of this cool content that we take for granted in the usa is blocked and not available there? Because when I look at the available content on ps3 and 360 it really is totally lopsided, the 360 wins by a landslide, but maybe that is just in the usa. Hence why every time I hear the "360==shooters" comment I just scratch my head in total confusion.
If all this neat content is indeed blocked in Japan then that is Microsofts failing and they need to address that, but I have no way of knowing that. Anyone here try Live both in usa and japan to compare?
I never pegged it as a shooter only console. I just asked the question how many would have sold in the west if there weren't any shooters. It should be clear that the main reason to buy the 360 for maaaaaany people are the shooters.
And just for you (ya and others), but not for everyone.
If that were true, wouldn't more people go with ps3? I thought it had more shooters.
Well I don't mean for me, you or anyone, I mean the numbers game. Just count up how much is available on each, quite the difference. There is less variety of gaming available on ps3 if you have the full Live experience, which we know Europeans don't get from what they have mentioned here on this forum. Hence why now I'm curious if Japan is in the same boat. That would explain a lot if it was true. A console can't hope to win a region if it artificially restricts it's content in that region.
You missed out entry price, marketing dollars spent, type of audience, etc.
While Xbox customers may like shooters more, I think at this point, there are a boat load of assorted games on both platforms. I don't know if Xbox has a landslide more content than PS3 though. On the movie side, it's not true for sure. Then again, people don't buy every content in existence, they pick and choose. [size=-2]Would be a huge waste of my time to watch/play every content out there.[/size]
Seriously, one, I am more curious about DoCoMo's adoption of Android. This means PSP Phone may get tagged along too. ^_^
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Apple has it's problems in Japan except with 2 key products, which also happen to be their largest. iPod, gained a huge foothold due to the only quality competition being from Korea, which Japanese tend to avoid more than American products. iPhone, extremely slow initial adoption that was boosted by the iPhone being given away for free. It's computers still don't do well there even though Apple pays big bucks to reserve large display areas in key department store chains. Now if Apple could get OSX onto Japanese branded computers (ala MS Windows) they'd do quite a bit better.
As for the rest, all world wide iconic products. Coca-Cola, McDonalds, Movie Stars and Pop Singers all defy cultural barriers. Just like back in the 80's anything American from the 50's or about the 50's was hugely popular and desirable due to the iconic nature of Rock and Roll from that era.
You can throw in things like Levi Jeans which has always been popular even when it was obscenely expensive in the 70's and 80's due to the exchange rate and Levi Strauss knowing they could jack up the price in foreign countries and people would still pay. That market penetration and desirability was due entirely to its iconic image. It's helped by the fact that Japanese companies didn't make jeans as there was no market for jeans in Japan. Yes, I realize that Levi's are jeans. But they weren't bought because they were jeans. They were bought purely because of the iconic nature of the Brand.
That might be. MS tried this to a small extent by paying large sums of money to Japanese developers to make Japan-centric games for the launch. But it didn't do much for them. Playstation 2 was still huge enough that people just didn't care, and they were already looking forward to the PS3. The only reason PS3 didn't do well the first year was due to the huge economic crunch that hit when it launched combined with its high price. Take out either one of those factors and it probably would have shot above X360 much sooner and come close to matching Wii much sooner.
But if they could secure exclusivity to key Japanese cultural icons and phenomena it would certainly help. That goes back to an earlier point of mine. If the only way to get something is from a foreign source then they will do that, albeit reluctantly at first.
So it would have to be not only exclusivity to a broad spectrum of iconic material, but also for a long and extended time period (say 3-4 years at minimum). Otherwise, many (although not all) will abandon it for the local product once again. It has to maintain that edge for long enough that it isn't just tolerated but becomes accepted as viable and normal.
And during that period they would have to be active in gaining exclusivity as new iconic material gains mass appeal. Of course, during this time you'll have also the possibility of significant consumer backlash due to a foreign entity attempting to corner the market on Japanese cultural icons.
So it wouldn't be any guarantee of success.
Regards,
SB
... and now, iPhone does very well in Japan, according to one, right ? So you have an "iconic" product that had a slow start until Apple was able to build the momentum. Besides iPod and iPhone, I'd like to see how well iPad does in Japan too.
Computers need to run existing software. Coupled with price premium, Apple will have a harder time trying to sell their laptop. But it will have its following.
Sure, but I'm just countering the typical "oh if you like shooters you go 360" comments since if it were really all about shooters, then the ps3 would be doing better. Regarding type of audience, given that Sony has poured millions into exclusive shooters for the ps3, I have to assume that they have done the research and determined that shooters are important to their audience.
I think you have both a ps3 and 360 and you are in the usa right? So just do a check, it really is kinda lopsided. And you can trial every single piece of content on there as a bonus. If variety is the argument then the 360 simply has more and you can test out all of it, *assuming* it's all available around the world which I'm starting to suspect it's not.
Isn't movies also lopsided? 360 had downloadable movies for ages, even before netflix, I think ps3 is just recently getting stuff like netflix. But then again maybe netflix is not available in Japan? I think that is much of the problem, where stuff that you and me have had for ages on 360 just isn't available abroad. Hence when in Japan if you power up a ps3 and see the full psn selection of games and movies, then power on a 360 and see a gimped selection, then what chance does the 360 have?
The point being that the variety, at least in the usa, has always been there for movies and games, far more so than the competition on both counts. But it has made no difference in Japan. Me and you can easily verify that in the usa, just boot up both machines and check it. But we need someone in Japan to verify that Live is gimped there compared to its usa counterpart. I really think that would explain a lot if it was true.
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I think he's referring to the sales ratio of shooters vs other genra on both platforms.
Nope. I don't have a 360. Variety of what ?
Downloadable movie library is smaller than disc based ones. NetFlix's library is mostly TV shows and (very) old movies. It's smaller than Hulu Plus overall. HD-wise, it's smaller than VUDU. VUDU has newer movies too. And then there's upscaled DVD and Blu-ray movies.
In Japan, Blu-ray is doing well. And they have Tourne DVR which is also doing very well.
In Europe, they have BBC iPlayer, LoveFilm and Mubi. Plus that music video thing.
[size=-2]...and Blu-ray again.[/size]
Finally, Sony's PSN also has its own movie and TV collection.
Now that I think of it, GTTV has some car shows too. Haven't checked it out.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Again, iPhone started off very slowly for it's first 1-2 years in Japan. Consider this. It has NO competition. It had no Japanese alternative. Yet still had to be given away for free to gain any sort of acceptance.
That's a huge resistence to foreign product even though iPod has been doing well there for quite a long time now. Just like X360 doesn't gain immediately acceptance even though Windows is the dominant choice as a computing platform. And the Japanese even got excited about Vista as opposed to the Western countries.
Now, iPhone has a fairly healthy appstore ecosystem in Japan and is generally accepted. But look back above. It wasn't easy even with the best possible circumstances available for a foreign product. And they've basically had exclusivity in the media centric smartphone market for almost half a decade.
So it went through huge resistence at launch despite exclusivity. Then tolerance due to it being given away for free, even with exclusivity to a market segment. Then grudging acceptance as people were now willing to at least pay for it.
It'll be interesting to see how that goes as the localised Android Japan specific handsets start to mature and if the Japanese Android marketplace takes off.
It may or may not stay relevant once fully comparable Android experiences are available from the traditional Japanese handset makers. As for WP7? I really don't expect it to do well there even if it's given away for free. If you're a foreign company, it's almost impossible to successfully launch a product if you aren't first.
Regards,
SB
Didn't I say it's too early to judge Kinect and Move ? ^_^
iPhone finally caught on, so Japanese can love iPhone too.
What best possible circumstance ? The world economy was in shambles during the last few years. ^_^
Compare iPhone and Windows Smartphone. iPhone is much more successful. The Japanese simply picked what they like like the rest of the world.
Ok, well if downloadble movies get disregarded then it should be all about dvd's, since dvd is the largest video library and most of the quirky stuff, older stuff, etc, is dvd only, and both machines play dvd. So it's also a non issue in that case, both have the variety. I still though don't see why download movies would get discounted, unless watching streaming movies isn't a popular thing to do in Japan like it is here.
Here's how I gauge Xenophobia...I ask natives. Not foreigners, or even people that visited there for a few weeks as they may just have had a bad experience. I ask natives that have lived there for years. It's fairly easy to do here as we have so many foreigners working in the usa on visas. The pattern so far has been consistent. I'm not American, so I started by asking native Americans about acceptance here and sure enough it's the typical answer of yeah some are xenophobic, but many are tolerant and nice people. Same thing with Europeans, ask people from France, UK, Spain, wherever, and it's the same type of answer where yeah some are close minded but many are totally tolerant and nice people. Now, switch to asking Japanese people the same thing. Maybe it's been a fluke on my end all these years, but every single time I've asked the question, and I mean 100% of the time, the answer is always "oh yeah", they completely agree about the Xenophobia issue there. They don't even try to marginalize it or say how some are more tolerant, etc, it's just an accepted fact on their part. I even mixed it up a bit and asked people from Korea or China about Japanese living, those that have lived there for periods of time, and the answer was the same.
So I can go by what people on forums claim, or I can go by what natives have been telling me for years. On the one hand I'd like to not believe it. On the other hand Japan is also the only nation I know of where there are entire areas in which foreigners are not even allowed to go in. Does Saudi Arabia even have that? Not sure. But ultimately it's really telling when a Japanese friend will warn me that if I visit Japan that I need to avoid such and such areas because they don't allow foreigners, or to avoid such and such restaurants because I'll sit there forever since they don't serve foreigners, etc... Hence the xenophobia claims really don't seem all that far fetched to me.
May be because Japanese are moving on to HD ? ^_^
PS3 has superb DVD upscaling since the early days.
You seem to have confused xenophobia and consumption. They can be 2 different things.
People may be shy to talk to foreigners (or they may not care about outsiders), but they can appreciate good products nonetheless.
But hd movies have been downloadable for years on the 360, long before the ps3 had them since ps3 was stuck with just a small selection of hd discs back then. So if they really wanted hd movies, why not go with the cheaper 360 that offered them hd movies long time ago? Unless there is no interest in downloading movies in that market and it's all disc centric, in that case then yeah blu-ray would naturally shift the advantage. But given how tech they are in Japan I'd have figured they would be all over the convenience of downloading, but perhaps not in this case.
I think the two are interlinked really since xenophobia can affect consumption. Like way back in the 80s in some parts of the usa, where xenophobia against the Japanese affected car purchasing habits in some parts of the country.
HD downloaded movie is not the same as Blu-ray. DRM, price, collection, newness of content, tangibility, and quality are all different. Consumers can tell the differences easily.
Besides, Japanese are used to DVD (or Blu-ray) DVR instead of pure players. All their (popular) standalone players are in fact DVRs.
That's the problem. It's true it can affect some people, but not all Japanese are like that as far as I can tell. Like you mentioned above, US has its share of xenophobic folks, but it doesn't mean the entire US is like so.
Besides, Japanese are used to DVD (or Blu-ray) DVR instead of pure players. All their (popular) standalone players are in fact DVRs.
That's the problem. It's true it can affect some people, but not all Japanese are like that as far as I can tell. Like you mentioned above, US has its share of xenophobic folks, but it doesn't mean the entire US is like so.
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