think what mechanizeddeath meant was that because Sony has movie studios and games coming out on BR (Sony pictures, Columbia, and recently purchased MGM, etc), they have more invested interest and higher possible ROI on a format because they produce content as well.
Yet sony has to first make back the money they spent on mgm before they can profit on it . Secondly sony still has to produce hits from sony and columbia pictures to continue to make moeny . If sony makes a movie and it flops that will directly affect sales down the line .
Toshiba on the other hand doesn't care how a movie does , even a movie like gigli had a few hundred thousand copies made , all which toshiba will get royalitys for .
Meanwhile Toshiba has no content to gain from first hand, only the royalties to make up for it -
Wrong . TOshiba will gain in alot of ways .
1) x amount of x360 units sold this year before sony starts thier bluray push .
2) joint advertising
3) Movie royalitys for each movie made and since they now have x360 units playing hd-dvd media its a bigger audiance which means companys will put more moives on quicker and produce more discs all = money . NOt to mention long term benfits
4) Toshiba will make moeny off each hd-dvd disc made for games . This is a market that they wouldn't have been in with out the x360. Thus toshiba can start making money back on those drives from the first game launched and a game that sells 15m units like halo 2 did would bring in alot of money even if each disc only costs under a 1$
Now, if Toshiba and all the other HD-DVD companies in the consortium got together and chipped in a bunch of cash to make the drives and gave MS a good deal, that'd be a different story -- who knows, this could happen.
Why ? Who cares about the consortium . This is toshiba's standard , they make money off it . Every company in the consortium will pay a fee for each disc and drive they make to toshiba .
WOW! If you think I'm flaming someone, let me know. I don't think I'm flaming any person, or company. I'll just leave it at that.
Sure you don't . Your bias obviously blinds you to what your saying . Your post is flame bait pure and simple .
Bobbler might have explained my point better for you. I don't see how this deal would work to Toshiba's advantage in the least. They would be taking a net loss to build a userbase. A userbase that doesn't pay them back in any way, except maybe off HD-DVD royalties, if they make any.
No he hasn't and either have you . How does bluray pay back to sony in any other way than royalitys ?
They can make any game they want on dvd and its cheaper . Surely sony would be better off with that as your point is basicly saying there is nothing to offset the losses .
Toshiba will stand to make billions and use the x360 sa a way to secure the new home movie format for the next 10 years and most likely in that time frame be in 1 to 2 consoles in which to make more money .
Its the same arguement that you and sony fans use whenever price is brought up .
"Oh sony can take short term loss for long time gain " If sony can then toshiba surely can who will loose less per unit than sony .
Sony, OTOH, doesn't need BD to even become a standard to make money. It's just a storage medium and drive in their system. Their profits will come from game sales, period.
If that was true they would never have come up with bluray . Face it sony needs this more than even toshiba . Sony is bleeding money from its other markets and they need a product other than the playstation brand to make moeny . Esp since the playstation brand only has about a 3 year cycle (3 years porift , 3 years loss or very close to it ) in which to make money as each new console they introduce looses money .
Bluray / hd-dvd if either becomes the standard will be around for 10+ years and of itself is a very big market and as profitable as the game market . For toshiba this is even more so as they just have to produce the discs and players and not worry about movies or game budgets .
What's Toshiba getting back from MS
I've already listed many things . Large installed base in its first year , money off each game disc made , money off movies they can now sell to those x360 users , a better chance at making hd-dvd the new standard .
There are many things toshiba is getting back from ms . Your just to blind to see it or read other peoples posts .
They'd need a slice of the game sales or something to justify the investment. They are a hardware company who's hardware doesn't provide any proprietary software. That's my point. I'm not bashing anyone. PEACE.
You've bashed ms many times in your first post . ANd secondly your being rude as you can't even bother to read others posts .
Toshiba has a shit load of things to justify thier investment as i've already pointed out in my first reply to you and now in this one . Perhaps if you read other peoples posts you would see just how stupid your posts come off to others and see how useless it is to continue claiming things which you've already been told are false .
Start reading posts instead ofjumping in to bash ms and you might actually become a valuable member of this forum .
Now with that said, I would not expect such a deal from Toshiba. Maybe, maybe, a discounted drive based on pushing the format but not free.
no one has ever said free and what he is saying isn't based on sense or fact . Toshiba stands to make millions if not hundreds of millions off the x360 deal if its true which is far more than they will loose .
The MS/Sony flop is a hypothetical, simply that. Let's replace "flop" with "undersells" or something. The win for Toshiba would be if the 360 sells a large amount that can establish a market to sell HD-DVD movies on, which can then feed Toshiba through royalties off the discs. I don't know what they make off each, but would it really be in the same ballpark as what MS and Sony will make off devs making games? Those systems sell hundreds of millions of units of software. A tie-rate of 6-10:1 with a larger royalty per title sold (assumption) would make the deal much rosier for them than for Toshiba. Besides which, Sony makes royalties off BDs as well. Yet there's still concern about the cost of the BD drive. I won't mention that again, b/c this topic is about 360 and HD-DVD, but the same cost issues will arise for the 360. Only now, it impacts both MS and Toshiba.
hey your the one who started it with your sony have locked eu and japan .
The win for toshiba would be more than hd-dvd movies . It will be more marketing this year at hd-dvds launch , it will be a bigger installed base in which to grab hold of those sitting on the fence or in sony's camp and get them to make movies for thier formay , its also money made on the game discs . Toshiba unlike ms and sony don't have to make back the same because they will not loose the same amount of money . Tosbhiba will not take a loss of a 125$ (based on xbox ) on these drives . They will take perhaps 20-25$ to get the price right . I'm expecting hd-dvd drive costs to fall between dvd and bluray but closer to bluray . So yes toshiba will make less per game made than sony and ms . However they have less invested and thus a 15m game like halo 3 on hd-dvd will still make them millions and at some point a large majority of games will just use the hd-dvd disc .
Yet the key is movies . You don't want to admit it but sony and toshiba want control of this 10 year + market in which either one of them has the chance to make money on each of the drives sold and each movie / rom sold . That is billions of dollars . For toshiba getting into a console that will most likely sell around 3 million units this season is key to getting that market . Then for x360 to hit its goals and sell 10 million in its first 18 months will only strengthen toshiba's position and increase the sales for them .
Besides which, Sony makes royalties off BDs as well. Yet there's still concern about the cost of the BD drive. I won't mention that again, b/c this topic is about 360 and HD-DVD, but the same cost issues will arise for the 360. Only now, it impacts both MS and Toshiba.
Your wrong . First off you have no proof that there will be the same cost issues . SEcondly it does impact both ms and toshiba . However that is two companys taking a hit . Not 1 . Toshiba and ms can both ride out looses on the hd-dvd drive in the xbox 360 and it will be easier for them to make up the loss . Both are profitable unlike how sony is currently doing . Also sony will be taking looses still on the psp and on the whole ps3 .
Toshiba sells HD-DVDs to MS, which helps build their base, and helps them sell software. They make money off the system now. What's Toshiba got?
read my posts and you willu nderstand .
Are they an IP company or a CE company? Is the brunt of their revenue expected to come from HD-DVD media royalties or HD-DVD player sales?
They will make money off both . How dumb of a question is this . Toshiba gets money off each hd-dvd disc sold . Period , end of story . Toshiba will also make money on hd-dvd player sales from anyone who makes them , period , end of story .
Company X has it all inclusive b/c even if a single movie is sold on their format, the drive is just a storage format. An "expensive" one (which is actually something I argued against all this time), but just that, a storage format. The cost is just part of the regular console cost, which will hopefully be recouped through software sales.
your a very silly man if you believe this .
Sony knows how big the dvd market is and is expecting the hd market to be just as big in the future . In the end who ever controlls that maket will make much more than sony can in the console sector . Not to mention that at any moment sony can start loosing ground in that console market and make less each time
If not a single HD-DVD movie is sold (hypothetical), or the Xbox360 doesn't significantly contribute to HD-DVD movie sales (hypothetical), what does Toshiba gain?
ANy hd-dvd game made hte will get money . Toshiba has thigns to loose that is right . But your not seeming to grasp the concept that toshiba unlike sony wont be loosing 100-200$ a x360 put out and that if toshiba can take the market they will be making much more money then they put out . Anyway hd-dvd movies will be sold .Even laser disc sold movies . The more players out there the more movies will be produced and the more will be sold to customers .
The reason I say Toshiba will lose money (to answer a688) is because if MS will want to keep costs down, they should conceivably want to pay close to cost for those drives.
once again sony is doing the same thing . Do you think toshiba cares about 2005 / 2006 ? Toshiba cares about 2007-2015 because it wants to be the high def player because once again they can make billions . xbox 360 will be the cheapest way for them to do it as the system will sell and it will be shipping in mass quanitys this holiday before toshiba's rival can put out its trojan .
You really don't see whats at stake for these two companys (toshiba and sony )
Its a market that unlike the video game industry has a longer cycle and creates almost the same amount of money that all video games make each year .
To either company they will be willing to loose some money to become the one with the format still standing . For toshiba that could be loosing a few million in 2005/2006 so that in 2008 they can be making billions . To sony it could be loosing millions in the ps3 so that in 2008 they can be making billions from something other than the playstation brand
