Had development continued, could DC have rivalled PS2?

[chaphack]

Cant wait for the second coming of Emotion Synthesis too! Oh wait, we have SH3! Third coming it is!



Paul,
>>Like it or not, aliasing does as great a deal as with polygon count towards a sweet looking game. And i can tell you SH3 has alisaing and it is not little. Those pixel perfect screens are not any indication on how the game will look, unless of course we go with the PC version.

 

[Almasy]

Cant wait for the second coming of Emotion Synthesis too! Oh wait, we have SH3! Third coming it is!



Paul,
>>Like it or not, aliasing does as great a deal as with polygon count towards a sweet looking game. And i can tell you SH3 has alisaing and it is not little. Those pixel perfect screens are not any indication on how the game will look, unless of course we go with the PC version.

I assume that you have seen the game and played it extensively to be able to give an educated opinion on the game.



Come on, Chap, all you ever do is troll. You look for excuses to hate Sony. Heck, your resolution arguement is not even yours, its a copy-paste job of Lazy8s, you´re not smart enough to come up with one on your own.

 

[chaphack]

Right i troll because i do not agree with you PS2 fanatics about untapped unmaxxed power unbelieveable powers and all. Copy and paste my ass. Of course i play SH3, and when you finally get to play it, prepare to boot up SH2 and do an indoor comparison.

 

[maskrider]

Right i troll because i do not agree with you PS2 fanatics about untapped unmaxxed power unbelieveable powers and all. Copy and paste my ass. Of course i play SH3, and when you finally get to play it, prepare to boot up SH2 and do an indoor comparison.

From my eyes, SH3 looks way better than SH2 in game.

 

[Almasy]

Right i troll because i do not agree with you PS2 fanatics about untapped unmaxxed power unbelieveable powers and all. Copy and paste my ass. Of course i play SH3, and when you finally get to play it, prepare to boot up SH2 and do an indoor comparison.

Who ever said that PS2 had "unbelievable powers"? All you ever do is bitch about how Sony cheated on you or something of the sort, and you´re not smart enough to come up with an arguement to hate them. You even come up with made up resolutions to support your arguements.

You should leave the place, you´re wasting your time and everyone´s time here. Unless you get an enourmous sense of satisfaction from hating on Sony just because and relying on Lazy8s to provide your dumb little head with arguements that you´d otherwise never know about.

 

[notAFanB]

on a side note is europe the only one to adopt the RGB output standard? seems a shame as it really doees provide best possible IQ outputs for standard tellys.

US/Canada has component cable which is basically the same thing as RGB signal (just each component is calculated using some coefficients multiplying R, G and B component)

not saying your wrong here but the difference between component cable and RGB are pretty huge. I.e less color bleeding and dot craw..

EDIT:

hmm after a bit of googleing it appears they are closer than I first thought. with the difference in that RG components are reoughtly helf sampled before being sent to the output.

so RGB>Component>>>>s-video>composite>RF

 

[chaphack]

Who ever said that PS2 had "unbelievable powers"? All you ever do is bitch about how Sony cheated on you or something of the sort, and you´re not smart enough to come up with an arguement to hate them. You even come up with made up resolutions to support your arguements.

You should leave the place, you´re wasting your time and everyone´s time here. Unless you get an enourmous sense of satisfaction from hating on Sony just because and relying on Lazy8s to provide your dumb little head with arguements that you´d otherwise never know about.

Did you not see those silly comments of more untapped potential of how many PS2 games are more than keeping up with XB/GC and so fore? Or you just decide to ignore them? If you are bright enough, it is not just about Sony cheating on me with their silly hype, but the many PS2fanatics in this place who cling on to their hardware beliefs.

So you are the smarty pants who rather bash a poster than to point out the stuffs that you disagree?

What made up resolutions? Maybe you PShordes are so deprived of crystal clear res that suddenly it does not matter anymore.

So point out which parts of my statements you think is wrong. Tell me and i gladly explain to you. Or you are dumb enough not to understand?

I am relying of Lazy? Yeah right... I am not even a DC fanatic but certain stuffs he said make sense and i agree with him. So if you are just another Pshorde who agrees with the rest, you are sucking off their views too?

 

[notAFanB]

Did you not see those silly comments of more untapped potential of how many PS2 games are more than keeping up with XB/GC and so fore? Or you just decide to ignore them? If you are bright enough, it is not just about Sony cheating on me with their silly hype, but the many PS2fanatics in this place who cling on to their hardware beliefs.

your patroniseing demeanor isn't helping though.

regarding 'silly comments' of untapped potential and keeping up with Xbox/GC can you be a little more specific.

 

[marconelly!]

not saying your wrong here but the difference between component cable and RGB are pretty huge. I.e less color bleeding and dot craw..

That's probably 'Composite' you are thinking of. 'Component' cable is whole other game. I think Component is US only thing, and us used for HDTV signals, etc.

Maybe you PShordes are so deprived of crystal clear res that suddenly it does not matter anymore.

Or maybe we don't have/are not willing to blow off $3000 on a TV (say hi to your dad), so it doesn't matter because of that...

 

[rabidrabbit]

Oh, I believe it was I who last said PS2 is more than keepin up with xb and GC.
I never knew it would have such a profound effect on poor chap.
Sorry.

 

[notAFanB]

not saying your wrong here but the difference between component cable and RGB are pretty huge. I.e less color bleeding and dot craw..

That's probably 'Composite' you are thinking of. 'Component' cable is whole other game. I think Component is US only thing, and us used for HDTV signals, etc.

no I meant component. I really think this deserves a seperate topic all together though

I think only europe adopts the RGB inputs for standard TV (hell it's pretty difficult not to find one in the UK). I beleieve Component is used in studios to reduce abndwidth requirements with minimal loss of the RGB signal.

seriously on a good telly RGB approaches VGA levels of output, I currently refuse to play using anything else.

 

[marconelly!]

Well, component has no loss, actually. Studios use it just because it's easier for color manipulation, not because of storage savings.

See here:

http://www.epanorama.net/links/videosignal.html#basics

Component video formats
There are many component video formats in use in use. The most commonly used component video formats are RGB, YPbPr and YCbC. The RGB format is the basic format in which the signal is generated in the video camera. In other formats the Y component of this signal is the black and white information contained within the original RGB signal. The Pb and Pr signals are colour difference signals, which are mathematically derived from the original RGB signal. It is important to realize that what is commonly called "component video" (YPbP or YCbC) output and RGB video output are not the same and are not directly compatible with each other, however, they are easily converted either way, at least in theory.

The formula for converting RGB <-> YPbP is very simple and it's obvious from it that no loss is involved. Can't find it now but I had it at one point...

 

[maskrider]

Well, component has no loss, actually. Studios use it just because it's easier for color manipulation, not because of storage savings.

See here:

http://www.epanorama.net/links/videosignal.html#basics

Component video formats
There are many component video formats in use in use. The most commonly used component video formats are RGB, YPbPr and YCbC. The RGB format is the basic format in which the signal is generated in the video camera. In other formats the Y component of this signal is the black and white information contained within the original RGB signal. The Pb and Pr signals are colour difference signals, which are mathematically derived from the original RGB signal. It is important to realize that what is commonly called "component video" (YPbP or YCbC) output and RGB video output are not the same and are not directly compatible with each other, however, they are easily converted either way, at least in theory.

The formula for converting RGB <-> YPbP is very simple and it's obvious from it that no loss is involved. Can't find it now but I had it at one point...

Theoretically, there are colours that exist in RGB but invalid in YCbCr, as RGB has full range 0-255 for RGB while YCbCr is bound to 16-235 for Y, and 16-240 for Cb and Cr.

For sure that's only theory, pratically, it will be dependant on the situation as HDTV/DVD players are using MPEG-2 and MPEG-2 is using YCbCr for colour encoding.

Computer graphics is another issue.

edit: more consistent word color/colour

 

[chaphack]

I know games mainly use RGB while DVD movies are in YCbCr and there are some loss in between them.

 

[notAFanB]

there is some compression on the Green signal from RGB, the plus is the band width saving and seperation on Luminace for editing purposes.

the above is moot and the 2 are pretty close (or at least miles ahead of s-video). by default though you can't argue with standardised RGB support

EDIT:

alll in all I'll take the top tier RGB since I spend most of the time staring at monitors/playing games (where color space is pretty important).

 

[marconelly!]

Can't argue, RBG support is great, but I doubt anyone could see a difference between RGB and Component with a naked eye, even if there is some measurable difference.

 

[notAFanB]

think of it in terms of less 'downsampling' on graphics output

oh and it's ideal for those of use with VGA boxes.

 

[Almasy]

Did you not see those silly comments of more untapped potential of how many PS2 games are more than keeping up with XB/GC and so fore? Or you just decide to ignore them? If you are bright enough, it is not just about Sony cheating on me with their silly hype, but the many PS2fanatics in this place who cling on to their hardware beliefs.

So you are the smarty pants who rather bash a poster than to point out the stuffs that you disagree?

What made up resolutions? Maybe you PShordes are so deprived of crystal clear res that suddenly it does not matter anymore.

So point out which parts of my statements you think is wrong. Tell me and i gladly explain to you. Or you are dumb enough not to understand?

I am relying of Lazy? Yeah right... I am not even a DC fanatic but certain stuffs he said make sense and i agree with him. So if you are just another Pshorde who agrees with the rest, you are sucking off their views too?

How exactly does saying "PS2 is keeping up with Xbx/GCN" equate to PS2 having unlimited powers? They´re completely unrelated ideas.

Remember the SC2 "comparison" you brought up and made up the especifics of a resolution that (720p), needless to say, wasn´t exact in the least and was brought up just to say that Xbox "destroys" PS2?

Also, I find the "cristal clear" comment quite laughable. The only place where I can find such thing is on my PC, nowhere else. No console uses 4X FSAA, which only then image quality could be considered "cristal clear". Of course, that concept to you may equate to a bit more filtering.

Your entire proposition in almost every point is wrong: Advertizement is wrong with Sony, but cool with MS. Sony is not allowed its console produces CG quality graphics, but MS is allowed to say that its console is powerfull enough to render reality. Xbox destroys PS2, and the biggest evidence is SC2 (based on a comment you swore you heard in some site), a product created from the ground up as a multiconsole one. SH2 looks exactly like SH3.

Just leave ok? At least Lazy can come up with new ideas on how to hate on Sony, and knows how to support them. All you have ever based your hate on is advertizing, and a borrowed resolution arguement. Pathetic.

 

[marconelly!]

At least Lazy can come up with new ideas on how to hate on Sony, and knows how to support them.

Word.

 

[Simon F]

Deadmeat,

Had Dreamcast been based on a Lockheed Martin Real 3D design
(or had Sega selected one of the proposed LM R3D consoles) it would have given PS2 a tougher time.

What on earth brings you to that conclusion? The PC real3D part, which came out later, was nothing special.

A LM R3D console would have been more upgradable, like how Martin Marietta upgraded the GE designed Sega Model 1 board with texture mapping to make Sega Model 2.

Have you seen the size of the boards in those machines? Anyway, what you are suggesting is akin to opening the console housing, ripping out the main board, throwing it in the bin, plugging a new board etc etc...