Had development continued, could DC have rivalled PS2?

[Deepak]

Oops! Chap is here... ...got to read this thread!!

 

[Evil_Cloud]

I do not understand that last post..pls clarify

I was talking about VF4 evo

 

[London Geezer]

VF4EVO was SUPPOSED to get progressive scan but the final version does not include the option. which is crap, cuz that way it doesnt really look any better than the *normal* version....

 

[notAFanB]

Don't you think thats streching it a bit too much?

Z.O.E for all it's pluses relies on too much on particle effects (nice tho they are)

it's anime ergo highly detailed bumpmapped everything is not prerequsuite.

 

[London Geezer]

it's anime ergo highly detailed bumpmapped everything is not prerequsuite.

huh?

 

[notAFanB]

it doesn't need 1024*1024 textures to look good (giant mech bots) ergo less to worry about on the tecturing front.

 

[London Geezer]

it doesn't need 1024*1024 textures to look good (giant mech bots) ergo less to worry about on the tecturing front.

yeah and texturing is not all a game needs is it.

 

[notAFanB]

not at all look at zelda wot and jet grind radio future.

however it' is clear take devs have reached a limited on the type/quality of textures on PS2 titles and are focusing art direction and 'film' type effects to squeeze additional performence for nth gen titles.


in summary

it's all good

edit:

I like to apologise for draggin this thread off topic for 3 pages.

that will be all

 

[overclocked]

I can state many ex of my work that not fit in dreamcast but in ps2 due to more(much more) power.

 

[chaphack]

Cool! Please do state your ex! I am always open to new info.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Soul Calibur 2 Xbox != straight port

MGS 2: Substance Xbox == straight port

 

[maskrider]

SC2 is visually and technically the best fighter on PS2. period. Different genres, different benchmarks. To mention ZOE2 is funny, 480i, slowdowns, crappy textures, tons of lowpoly enemies, same enclosed arenas. Big deal, as i said different benchmarks.

I don't intend to get into any of these shit but I will post this one anyway.

For sure I like the style of SC2, just like I like the style of DOA2/DOA2HC. To me, SC2 is visually pretty good, but technically the best ? I see no evidence supporting this claim.

For SC2, experienced SC2 fighters are claiming more lag on PS2, less on X-BOX and the least on GameCube. Can the GameCube claim to be the most powerful platform ? As I am more of a button smasher, I didn't notice any lag on all platform after finishing all 3 version (in order to create so many media files for the site, for sure I have also enjoyed the game).

ZOE2 does have very very open arena, one example is the levels during start of the game and before entering the space ship. It is snowing while confronting a whole lot of enemies.

 

[Ozymandis]

ZoE 2 does have some open areas and also some very "busy" action with a lot of enemies on-screen (although there's a lot of fogging in the largest areas ). Definitely very impressive even compared to Xbox and Gamecube stuff.

However, you can almost see smoke coming out of the Playstation2 during some of those sections as it struggles to render what's onscreen and the framerate drops into the single digits

 

[London Geezer]

However, you can almost see smoke coming out of the Playstation2 during some of those sections as it struggles to render what's onscreen and the framerate drops into the single digits

goes all like this

 

[chaphack]

pana,
>>at least we know SC2 is optimized for PS2 and is a port to Xbox, direct or not. SC2 producers mentioned in some Watch interview about doing more on the Xbox if they had more time or something

mask,
>>the first stage, the snow stage? well, apart from two plain icewalls at the sides, it aint mucho. not to mention, the areas are not continuous. limited cutoff arenas -> cutscenes -> repeat. somewhere along tat process, i believe it is loading in a new arena.
i mean it is a good looker for a ps2, but to say it has very very open areas is...not that right.

overclocked,
>>heya man, tell us more!

 

[Phil]

I've got ALL Shenmue versions
Shenmue 2 Special JAP edition with VF4 demo ^^, Shenmue 2 PAL version, Shenmue 1 PAL, JAP and US versions + Shenmue 2X. The Virtua Fighter 4 demo looks incredibly good for dreamcast (playable via VF.net, but now it's on none-active again ) Better then PS2. I am not saying that PS2 is inferior to DC, but the console lacks anti-aliasing, 60Hz (All Sega games have 60 hz options, even the PAL versions), decent use of colours (only a few games use bright colours, the rest is all grey, brown), textures are mostly ugly.

That all sounds good and all, but you still failed to point out why exactly that you think Shenmue 2 would not be possible on PS2 without loss of quality (obviously due to technical issues).

Also, the console does not lack anti-aliasing and 60Hz options. If it's something that is missing, then it was the developers choice not to implement them due to various reasons (not worth it? no libraries at the beginning? etc). Baulder's Gate is a beautiful game with no visible aliasing, no flickering, 60 fps etc. Tekken Tag would be another. Obviously, as seen in those two examples, the console is very capable indeed.

If you compare PS2 version of Sonic Heroes and Soul Calibur 2 with the GameCube and Xbox versions, there is no doubt that PS2 is getting old.

Again, the power of examples... does that mean I can take a game from PS2 which is worse on other consoles and form an "objective" arguement out of it? If Sonic Heroes or Soul Calibur 2, which are known multiplatform games (which no one knows how much they tap into each respective console), is the only basis you have for your arguement - then you still have some convincing to do...

Also, no one is argueing here how PS2 stands up to GameCube or Xbox - obviously, this is about Dreamcast, so I really don't see much point in bringing it up. Therefore, I really would appreciate it if you could back up your original opinion as I still don't get what's so impressive about Shenmue 2.. :?

 

[chaphack]

london-boy,
>>glad you agree that ZOE2 has somewhat similar structure to SC2. but again both are doing different things. SC2 obviously has much more varied colorful texture sets. We all know how tuff it is to get varied textures on PS2. Next it does full frame display, tuff on the VRAM storage? Throwing 50 enemies? Eh ok, but most of them have mucho lesso polycount, including Jehuty. Who knows, the 2 detailed fighter in SC might have more polygons than all of ZOE2 enemies. Do we forget the fogging and the fps dips or the simple looking backgrounds of ZOE2 arenas?

As such, i wont call it doing more, but doing differently. You might be impress with KCET methods, but to doubt Namco maxx out statement is nay.


Evil Cloud

Wasn't the PAL version going to get Full progressive scan? :/

dont think so. no p.scan for all.
i have not tested VF4E, but what i heard is Sega improved on the character aliasing. But the dull backgrounds and textures are not much done up from the first game. I have to see though.

cant wait for your VF4 DC pics! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Phil]

In some interview prior to SC2 release, Namco staffs went on the record to say the game maxxed out the PS2 based on their codes, or something. It is true, take it if you well.

I find that pretty hilarious. Guess what, I could perform a very complex mathematical equation on the Emotion Engine and let it max out easily... the question though is, how efficiant is it?.

How do you chap know how realistic that statement is? Most games max out the hardware they are running on and sometimes even go over the limit (slowdown occurs as a result) - so really, how does this help your arguement? We don't know how efficiant SC2 is running on either platform, so an objective comparasment is pretty useless.

Yep SC2 was a native System246 game yet the Xbox PORT still looks better.

I find it debattable how native SC2-PS2 is, as we still don't know how efficient it runs on the hardware, or on Xbox and GameCube for that matter. Seeing that it is a multiplatform game, I wouldn't be suprised if the devs had developed the game with that in mind to ensure easy porting as a result.

 

[maskrider]

ZoE 2 does have some open areas and also some very "busy" action with a lot of enemies on-screen (although there's a lot of fogging in the largest areas ). Definitely very impressive even compared to Xbox and Gamecube stuff.

However, you can almost see smoke coming out of the Playstation2 during some of those sections as it struggles to render what's onscreen and the framerate drops into the single digits

I fought through the area and entered the space ship but didn't see the mentioned single digit slow down, may be it is just me, but I had almost blown all the enemies in that area.

 

[zurich]

What about that super huge open level in ZoE2 with a couple hundred enemies onscreen at once? The one where you just hold down Phalanax and go to town for 15 minutes That was impressive.. but I think my Emotion Engine tore a hole in quantum-time-space while doing that level