GT4 on PS2 = Orgasmic!

[marconelly!]

It's true what Dural said, about slamming and such, but that is all the result of the design choice of having undestructible cars. Actual driving physics (if you drive as you should drive in reality, without slamming into walls and cars) are really good, IMO.

It would be a pretty damn hardcore game with no appeal to 99% of people if you would end your race when run into a tree at ~100MPH, and get your car totalled :\

 

[Dural]

It's true what Dural said, about slamming and such, but that is all the result of the design choice of having undestructible cars. Actual driving physics (if you drive as you should drive in reality, without slamming into walls and cars) are really good, IMO.

It would be a pretty damn hardcore game with no appeal to 99% of people if you would end your race when run into a tree at ~100MPH, and get your car totalled :\

The handling physics are very well done, most of the time, it is the way the car reacts to other objects in the environment, like cars and walls, that needs to be fixed. The game wouldn't have to be that hardcore either, it should punish people that don't drive correctly though. If you slam into the back of another car or if you hit the wall too hard the car should go out of control or spin out. Many other games do this, even games with indestructible cars, so I see no reason why it shouldn't be done in the GT series.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Until car handling and feedback in games is much more realistic, I don't see much point in implementing realistic damage, or punishing the player too much for bad driving.

It really is much easier to accidentally bump into other cars and walls in a game, than in real life. Most 'accidents' in games are the result of not receiving enough feedback from game environment.

 

[Dural]

Until car handling and feedback in games is much more realistic, I don't see much point in implementing realistic damage, or punishing the player too much for bad driving.

It really is much easier to accidentally bump into other cars and walls in a game, than in real life. Most 'accidents' in games are the result of not receiving enough feedback from game environment.

Handling and feedback is fine with todays games and many games prove that punishing a bad driver can work just fine. Have you played much Project Gotham Racing? The way the cars react to walls and other cars is very well done in it. If you hit a wall too hard you will most likely be sitting the wrong way on the track watching everyone pass you, same thing if you hit another car too hard(or if they hit you which happens often with PGRs AI ). It teaches the player to take the turns correctly and learn the brake points.

 

[marconelly!]

It really is much easier to accidentally bump into other cars and walls in a game, than in real life. Most 'accidents' in games are the result of not receiving enough feedback from game environment.

I agree with this, and have been saying that for a while.

Dural, by not enough feedback, he was probably saying that you don't have a field of view as in normal life, as well as there are no forces of acceleration, inertia and cetrifuge applied to your body, as in the real car. You don't feel anything when you're braking, accelerating or steering in a game. You only see what's going on, and even that is in a more limited field of view.

It can be compared by watching a rollercoaster ride comfortably sitting in your armchair, and actually going for a real ride. I don't think I need to explain the difference.

 

[Dural]

It really is much easier to accidentally bump into other cars and walls in a game, than in real life. Most 'accidents' in games are the result of not receiving enough feedback from game environment.

I agree with this, and have been saying that for a while.

Dural, by not enough feedback, he was probably saying that you don't have a field of view as in normal life, as well as there are no forces of acceleration, inertia and cetrifuge applied to your body, as in the real car. You don't feel anything when you're braking, accelerating or steering in a game. You only see what's going on, and even that is in a more limited field of view.

It can be compared by watching a rollercoaster ride comfortably sitting in your armchair, and actually going for a real ride. I don't think I need to explain the difference.

The field of view is fine, at least with a third person view it is, and the forces that are important are simulated with the rumble in the controllers. The forces felt when accelerating and braking don't matter, a driver knows where he has to start braking and what speed and gear he has to be in for each corner. The controller rumble helps to convey how the wheels are gripping the road and it has worked just fine for me.

 

[marconelly!]

Well, I've been reading some interviews with pro drivers and their major complaint was just what I described. They said that is what needs most time getting used to when you're training your driving on simulators vs. the real car.

Besides the lack of the forces applied to driver, another MAJOR drawback, is that the perception of depth is also completely lacking, due to the lack of stereoscopic vision. Yeah, you know by your experience the car gets bigger as it gets closer to you, etc, but that's just not the same thing.

I know you CAN memorize every inch of the road, every breaking point, etc. but most people are not willing to do that in the game, as they don't do that in real life either (and can drive just fine without crashing into anything)

 

[Dural]

Something else I forgot to mention is that in games you can also see how the car is reacting to your inputs to know if it is understeering or oversteering etc...

 

[marconelly!]

Hmm, that's true if you're driving from the 3rd person view. However, that is yet another difference from the real driving (not to mention that in the real car you don't sit 5m behind the car you're driving with the remote controller)

My point is, there are still many physical differences between driving real car and driving the car in the videogame, and most of those differences are to your disadvantage in a game. That is, I think, why developers feel that they have to help players by letting them smack around without being punished. I'd argue that GT3's universal appeal (it did sell some 8 million units) partly comes from the fact that you can both drive it perfectly if you want to, or you can smash around into other cars unpunished, if you don't feel like driving like a pro. Even PGR is too much of a hardcore game in that regard. Seasoned gamers are ready to live with it, adapt and better themselves through numerous retries, but millions of other people are simply not willing to do that.

 

[rabidrabbit]

It would be ideal if more realistic damage was an option you can turn on in GT4.
But GT4 being an online title, with possibly online competitive races, it would perhaps make things unnecessarily complicated (separate races for gamers with 'damage on' and 'damage off'

 

[pcostabel]

It would be ideal if more realistic damage was an option you can turn on in GT4.
But GT4 being an online title, with possibly online competitive races, it would perhaps make things unnecessarily complicated (separate races for gamers with 'damage on' and 'damage off'

Personally, I don't care about car damage. Half of the fun in GT is bouncing
off walls and other cars. If every time I hit something my car get destroyed,
it would spoil the game for me.

 

[V3]

GT3->GT4 will probabaly be about what GT->GT2 was, slightly improved graphics and way more cars and tracks.

GT -> GT2
added a broken Rally mode.
graphics is similar if not worse.

GT2 -> GT3
fixed Rally mode physics.
added wet track and its physics.
improve graphics.
improve frame rate.
drop to 2 view options from 3.
Force Feedback Wheel support.
Added F1 cars and its own physics as well as lower view.
Improve some of the physics, especially ones that deal with bounce.

GT3 -> GT4
Online ??
Wet & Dry option on all tracks ??
???
Full damage ?? I want to be able to flip the car first before eye candy body damage.

 

[_phil_]

dynamic weather ? (edit:meanning random,not prescripted dedicated track)

 

[-tkf-]

Something else I forgot to mention is that in games you can also see how the car is reacting to your inputs to know if it is understeering or oversteering etc...

Weird i NEVER drive from the 3rd person view and i can almost feel the car anyway.

And all the discussion about damage/penalties etc etc..

Well the damage part is more than just punishing the driver, it's like in other games where you want the game to be realistic, to much realism spoils the fun, so in order to implement damage in GT3 they would have had to tweak the difficulty. As it is now, you can race "clean" in GT3 or you can do whatever you want in order to win the races for me it's a win win situation.

And lets not forget that it's not all tracks that let you bump and grind your way through the field, in all the "open" tracks you loose time if you step over the curbes.

 

[McFly]

Weird i NEVER drive from the 3rd person view and i can almost feel the car anyway.

Totaly agree. First person view is the only real driving experience!

Fredi

 

[sir doris]

I think one of the biggest differences between a simulation and real driving is the input and the ability to make small adjustments to the cars position. This is what results in many more crashes and bangs in games than you would in real life. Even with a sterring wheel, full lock is turning the wheel about a quarter turn in a game. Where as in a real car, even a racing car you get so much more subtle steering - about 2 turns lock to lock (not including F1/ Indy).

 

[Phil]

heh, adding to that, the knowledge of it being a game and not reality. A simulation imho, should be something that "simulates" the real thing, thus making it as realistic as possible.

I would love to see some form of damage in GT4 though, it's one of those things you just need if you want to make it even more realistic. It would be cool if it's done like in WRC2, where you have to pay for every damage dearly. It would make it much more competitive and interesting in a race because you can't just bounce off walls and cheat. The fun part would be experiencing those cars just as it were in real life.

 

[Tiberius]

GT4 movie http://ps2movies.ign.com/ps2/video/granturismo4_e32003_51203_01.mov

 

[McFly]

First screens:

Rally Mode:

GT Mode:

Fredi

 

[McFly]

Oh, here's a link to the Sonysite preview: http://uk.playstation.com/previews/previewStory.jhtml?storyId=103725_en_GB_PREV&linktype=PMP

Fredi