God of War vs. Heavenly Sword

DeanoC said:
I think I'm allowed to say we are sorted with regard a publisher but who/what/where is currently private.
Great news! I'm glad for you guys. :D

And while you're at it, remember that there's some people out there who loved Kung-Fu Chaos, and those people would buy a sequel on a heartbeat. *wink* *wink* (Even if it use another name, since KFC is a TM of MGS, as long as it keeps the humour and the gameplay)
 
london-boy said:
:oops: *IMAGINES 1000 PEOPLE BATTLING EACH OTHER ON THE SAME BATTLEFIELD, ONLINE, EVERYONE AGAINST EVERYONE* :oops:
Yeah, and imagine that those 1000 dudes have a voice headset, it will be like Xbox Live but only an order of magnitude worse... 1000 twelve years old asshats screaming crap and different kind of insults over the microphone... :|

You could potentially die from such experience. At least, your IQ would die.
 
Vysez said:
london-boy said:
:oops: *IMAGINES 1000 PEOPLE BATTLING EACH OTHER ON THE SAME BATTLEFIELD, ONLINE, EVERYONE AGAINST EVERYONE* :oops:
Yeah, and imagine that those 1000 dudes have a voice headset, it will be like Xbox Live but only an order of magnitude worse... 1000 twelve years old asshats screaming crap and different kind of insults over the microphone... :|

You could potentially die from such experience. At least, your IQ would die.

Well if u put it like that :LOL:

YOU DREAM RUINER!
 
Vysez said:
london-boy said:
:oops: *IMAGINES 1000 PEOPLE BATTLING EACH OTHER ON THE SAME BATTLEFIELD, ONLINE, EVERYONE AGAINST EVERYONE* :oops:
Yeah, and imagine that those 1000 dudes have a voice headset, it will be like Xbox Live but only an order of magnitude worse... 1000 twelve years old asshats screaming crap and different kind of insults over the microphone... :|

You could potentially die from such experience. At least, your IQ would die.

If I yelled anything it would most likely be "Blood and souls for my lord Arioch!".
 
With the comparisons they've made, it's already a promising sign that Ninja Theory realizes how much of a priority the seamlessness of the combat engine is. These games play right when it feels like a Soul Calibur character with much of their smoothness and depth has been transplanted into the free moving environments of a third-person action game.

Capcom made important progress with Devil May Cry, but the precise-yet-flowing controls in games like God of War and especially the aforementioned Ninja Gaiden realize that better. The fighting styles of characters from the Soul Calibur series and also Lei Fei from Virtua Fighter make great examples of move combinations that flow together yet are still highly controllable. In a more abstracted sense, even the rollercoaster, momentum based action of a Sonic or NiGHTS title demonstrates this same principle.
 
Weird topic, honestly. Why should I be looking forward to a game from one development team, based on enjoyment of a game made by a completely different development team? :\
 
Lazy8s said:
With the comparisons they've made, it's already a promising sign that Ninja Theory realizes how much of a priority the seamlessness of the combat engine is. These games play right when it feels like a Soul Calibur character with much of their smoothness and depth has been transplanted into the free moving environments of a third-person action game.

Capcom made important progress with Devil May Cry, but the precise-yet-flowing controls in games like God of War and especially the aforementioned Ninja Gaiden realize that better. The fighting styles of characters from the Soul Calibur series and also Lei Fei from Virtua Fighter make great examples of move combinations that flow together yet are still highly controllable. In a more abstracted sense, even the rollercoaster, momentum based action of a Sonic or NiGHTS title demonstrates this same principle.
I just mean that Sega hasn't delivered any titles like that. Virtua Fighter may have the fluidity, but it is a straight-up fighter. And the other titles you mention you're only looking at conceptually, which really isn't the point. They're not among "these types of games" as it were. ;) And while I'd like to SEE an effort put forth on that wavelength, Sega has been very miss-or-miss-or-hit of late, so I'm not confident that they would deliver even if they potentially could.

Capcom, meanwhile, basically jump-started real interest and effort in "this type of game" with DMC, and though #2 was a non-starter, DMC3 delivers better than most others, IMHO. The sheer difficulty of the game may annoy many games, and it might be a bit more technical than they want... But it's basically top-tier, whereas Sega/Sammy's not even ON the tier right now.

These games are not simply fluidity-uber-alles.
 
ChryZ said:
How about "God of War 2" vs. Heavenly Sword? God of War is a high budget game, well received, homegrown franchise by SCEA, but it's THIS gen ... Sony should bang a few PS3 SDKs on their desks and force them to make a PS3 launch title / sequel of it :devilish:

oh yeah, definitally! totally agree with you 8)
 
Recent examples like God of War help to show what can be accomplished with this kind of play formula, just like Grand Theft Auto 3 helped people realize what kind of potential later games like True Crime were shooting for.

Developing this type of action play mechanic is a very arcade-like craft, and the most skillfull representation of those particular fundamentals are seen from AM developers naturally, even if only one of the three mentioned has actually put out a pure example of it. SEGA did demonstrate their own, though, with the action melee in Shenmue which possesses a move list as deep as a fighter, and Namco somewhat too in their Tekken Force and Soul Calibur mini-games.
 
Developing this type of action play mechanic is a very arcade-like craft, and the most skillfull representation of those particular fundamentals are seen from AM developers naturally, even if only one of the three mentioned has actually put out a pure example of it. SEGA did demonstrate their own, though, with the action melee in Shenmue which possesses a move list as deep as a fighter, and Namco somewhat too in their Tekken Force and Soul Calibur mini-games.

Recently, AM2 has that Virtua Quest game and Namco has Death by Degree, both are dreadful.
 
DMC3 delivers better than most others, IMHO. The sheer difficulty of the game may annoy many games, and it might be a bit more technical than they want...

What difficulty ? Dante is so overpowering in that game, I just don't get why people have difficulty in that game.
 
Lazy8s said:
Developing this type of action play mechanic is a very arcade-like craft, and the most skillfull representation of those particular fundamentals are seen from AM developers naturally, even if only one of the three mentioned has actually put out a pure example of it. SEGA did demonstrate their own, though, with the action melee in Shenmue which possesses a move list as deep as a fighter, and Namco somewhat too in their Tekken Force and Soul Calibur mini-games.
...and all these examples are either dissimilar, shruggable, or just plain bad. Capcom, meanwhile, has delivered multiple full-fledge games games better (among the DMC's, Onimushas, etc.), but somehow this doesn't count, while other developers who have not (or at least have not in years or in any large form) delivered are? Namco has made great games and flubs. Sega has made great games and flubs. How do we actually know their foray would be up to snuff?

IMHO, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, not in the ingredients on the counter.
 
Am i seeing right?
Lazy once again trying to play the SEGA Does It Better Than Anyone Else card in a thread that had n o t h i n g to do with Sega or any game they've done in recent years?
No, not only good games, i mean breakneck-action-packed-gorgeous-to-look-at-high-value-for-money-great-gameplay ones.

Let's leave Sega out of this thread, they really have done nothing like either God of War or DMC and it doesn't look like they have the interest to surprise us the same way those 2 games, or many others, did.
 
DeanoC said:
I think I'm allowed to say we are sorted with regard a publisher but who/what/where is currently private.

Excellent, this is fantastic news! I always knew you would find a decent publisher. :D

Ever since there was a feature on Just Add Monsters/Ninja Theory/Heavenly Sword in Edge magazine, I've never missed an issue. I am only a bit disappointed in the fact that the Ninja Theory Edge 'mini-site', or even the Ninja Theory website doesn't get that much updates, while there's one new screenshot of HS in Edge every month (VERY nice by the way!)... Any possibility of putting a bit more stuff there? KFC, KFS, HS,... all the same. :)
 
marconelly! said:
Weird topic, honestly. Why should I be looking forward to a game from one development team, based on enjoyment of a game made by a completely different development team? :\

Certain games this generation have stood out and have taken advantage of technology for more than just better graphics on your screen. They will influence the design of future games.

Half Life 2 = good FPS
Ninja Gaiden/God of War = good skill based action
Resident Evil 4 = all around fun game


I was just reading the Team X-Box forums and came across a similar type of thread with a lot of great posts on the subject of greatest action game of this generation. The three main games that most of the posters in the Team X-Box thread listed as the best skill based action games so far this generation are Ninja Gaiden, God of War, and Devil May Cry 3. Here is an example of one of the better posts.


Galeo Deus wrote...


Good topic.

Since these are 3 of my favorite games this generation, and action/adventure is my favorite genre, I guess I'll give my in depth opinion, as I am passionate about these games.

For comparative purposes, I'll break it down into combat mechanics, replayability, and design, which for me are the most important parts of games like these—graphics and such are just icing on the cake. I’ll also pretend all these games are the same age for fairness (for example, NG was the only in its class at the time, but right now its different). Also, I’m talking about the hardest difficulty for all the games (the only way to play them IMO).

Ninja Gaiden (with HP1)—

Combat: 10/10. Still phenomenal even though it’s well over a year old. Very fast and skill based. There needs to be more combos, though, and it is not possible to cancel certain attack animations to intercept/defend.

Replayability: 9/10. Excellent because it is mostly action-based. With certain areas having unlimited enemies, it is very possible to be in good control of the outcome of a level by getting a good amount of yellow orbs. Great length as well.

Design: 7/10. A ludicrously small amount of save points, particularly towards the end. Though definitely cool, the game went waaay overboard on the non-humanoid monsters towards the end. The most fun enemies in the game to combat are the ninjas and their fast-moving humanoid derivates like the cat fiends. The camera also can create big problems, most notably against the triceratops fiends—you just can’t fooking see them to defend properly. Battles against more than one of these at once simply turns into a battle of attrition. Also, why why why why did Itagaki put those ridiculous ghost fish in the game? Too much backtracking as well. The entire underwater segment needs to go. Boss battles range from phenomenal to just plain bad. Horrible bow controls, too. Bad English voice acting. I feel that going back and beating the game again as a chore for these reasons.

Devil May Cry 3—

Combat: 9/10. Fun as hell and the fastest paced there is. Excellent damage avoiding capability almost makes up for the fact there is no block or defend maneuver (yes, I am aware of Royal Guard). Wherein lies the problem: though there are 6 styles to dink around with, it is widely agreed that there is no point in playing the game in anything but Trickster if you want to be the most successful. Also, though there is a good amount of weapons there are not enough combos for them. On Heaven or Hell mode this is quite simply the most challenging game I have played (which is a good thing). Though it works well enough, I don’t like to have to target enemies to fight them will full combo ability, because of the limitation of crowd control that that implies. The biggest flaw with the actual mechanics is that the same tactic works against 90% of the non-boss enemies in the game, so the bulk of the experience is not very diverse.

Rplayability: 10/10. Holy cow. It is obvious that this game was DESIGNED to be played again and again. Access to all levels of all difficulties when beat once, you can level styles and gather orbs to your heart’s content. Incredible.

Design: 9/10. Dante is one of my favorite characters in videogames now. He’s an ass, but a lovable ass, and he is surprisingly deep. The cutscenes are incredible. I love the personal story and kept the enthralled the whole time. Boss battles are the best in any game ever, and they are consistently incredible the whole game. I hate the long load times, the lack of progressive scan, and the fact the music, while excellent, is unvaried. Too much backtracking here, too.

God of War—

Combat: 9/10. Though not as deep as Ninja Gaiden’s, as fast a DMC3’s, or quite as responsive as either of them, it is just as fun because of the sheer diversity of tactics required. The Blades of Chaos are the coolest melee weapons ever in a game so far, and the fact it has a ton of combos nearly makes up for the fact they are only 1 of 2 weapons in the game. Though I don’t like the fact that it is impossible to cancel most of your opponent’s attacks with your own (unlike NG and DMC3 where you are encouraged to), the game has to be like that otherwise Kratos would be so overpowered it would be laughable—you are given almost all the tools both Ryu and Dante has. I don’t like that there is no effective way to escape a situation where cornered or surrounded except to blast with Poseidon’s Rage (if you have sufficient mana)—Ryu can run up or adjacent to a wall to escape and turn it into an attack and Dante can jump 30 feet in the air, air dodge, and float there with Ebony and Ivory for a couple seconds. My biggest beef is that the action doesn’t feel as much like a “fighting†game that the other two do, but more (albeit incredibly deep) hack and slash.

Replayability: 7/10. Has neither the expansion of NG or the amount of difficulty levels of DMC3. After getting used to the mechanics, even God mode is way too easy. The only reason I’m not giving it lower is because the game is so damn fun.

Design: 8/10. No unlimited enemy spots or controlled, in-battle health application (potions in NG, stars in DMC3) points to the fact that the action is not primarily the focus of this game, which it should be. The boss battles are long, boring, and in the case of the last one, frustrating. Thankfully there are not many of them. However, this game takes the cake in style: one of the best original soundtracks in a game ever, my favorite art style of the three, the most gory, and c’mon…ancient GREECE! How cool is that? (I’m a big mythology buff). The wall climbing and rope traversing segment need better controls. Also, the whole

*Spoiler deleted*

just has a rehash of all the enemies and has boring and frustrating platforming haphazardly tacked onto it. They could have done a lot more with the story.

To summarize for everyone (cause I doubt anyone read that lol), IN MY OPINION:

Ninja Gaiden: Has the best core melee combat mechanic ever. Some horrible design decisions really pull down the game experience in the face of the other two.

Devil May Cry 3: The most non-diverse combat of the bunch (and therefore my leas favorite) is mostly offset by the incredibly fun and varied bosses. Probably the best game in terms of pure longevity (depends on if there will be another HP for NG).

God of War: Though the combat is not as deep as the other two, it is by far the most varied and is the most visually appealing. Some bad design decisions keep this from the “perfection†this game could easily have exuded.

There ya go. Each has strength and weaknesses. I can’t tell you what my favorite game is.

Is Ninja Gaiden still for some people greatest action game this gen.


I have expectations for a Heavenly Sword when a developer compares it to a great game like Ninja Gaiden. Whether or not God of War or Devil May Cry 3 are better are debatable, but I think most would agree they represent the skill based action genre of video games well, even if they aren't perfect.
 
I know what you mean, but you can't just expect every upcoming game to automatically be amazing just because a few games in the same genre made before it were amazing. I wish if that was true, but hell knows that for every Halo, GTA, Ninja Gaiden or God of War, there's been dozens of stinkers, and with nothing to go on (no previews or anything) I'm not going to ramp up my expectations for any game, just because a game made by an entirely different group of people was done well.
 
now titan dessert and the asessement above is about right imho.

actually i give god war combat more a 7.5. as said, doesnt have the hardcore depth of NG nor the impact feel of DMC3. god war combat is more like advanced BGDA.

Though I don’t like the fact that it is impossible to cancel most of your opponent’s attacks with your own (unlike NG and DMC3 where you are encouraged to),
yes exact feel! BGDA pops into mind. i bet we never see a perfect run video with god war.

god war focus more on level platform design. it do flows very well. but i enjoy NG (10/10) > DMC3(8.7/10) > GodWar(8/10)

NG is the SoTN this gen. more attck depth less exploring. but still gave me same enjoyment. backtracking included!

BTW deanoc, i hope your game have good influence from NG. thanks a lot brudder.
 
Vysez said:
DeanoC said:
I think I'm allowed to say we are sorted with regard a publisher but who/what/where is currently private.
Great news! I'm glad for you guys. :D

And while you're at it, remember that there's some people out there who loved Kung-Fu Chaos, and those people would buy a sequel on a heartbeat. *wink* *wink* (Even if it use another name, since KFC is a TM of MGS, as long as it keeps the humour and the gameplay)

Add another name to that list, Kung Fu Chaos is one of my favorite games. From some of the reviews, I can only imagine that today's educational system doesn't cover the meaning of satire. I'd KILL for a sequel.
 
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