Gamedaily: 3rd Party Sales Numbers*
- Thread starter fearsomepirate
- Start date
I was simply refering to your breaking even since November 2006 comment, eastmen. Nintendo made a boat load of money straight out of the gate. There is no comparison in the profitability department (from platform holder perspective) so far.
Same conclusion. The argument cuts both way. No one can say they are bad, isn't it ?
Same conclusion. The argument cuts both way. No one can say they are bad, isn't it ?
Personally I think it is interesting that Nintendo would post something like this at all. I mean, if they are really killing the 3rd party sales like they claim, what is the benefit of showing it off? I doubt any major publisher runs its business based on fanboi hype on teh internets; publishers know what is selling, so what is the point? It seems like just putting out something like this is admitting of suckage on their part. Granted I don’t follow this type of stuff often, so maybe this kind of report is common in the gaming industry. It just seems like in any other industry a statement like this would scream, “We suck, but not if you look at it like this”. They rake in the cash on 1st party software and hardware, to have to point out that 3rd party software is also selling sounds retarded. Maybe that is just me though.
This thread isn't about nintendo but third party devs on a nintendo console. Unless I read the title wrong. In the same time frame as the wii was out , third party devs would have made more than twice as much on the 360. Not only that but while the gamecube was dead and buried for third party developers in late 05 and early 06 the xbox 360 was selling 3rd party software in high numbers.
Which way to you want to spin the shit is the question. Do you want to time adjust for meaningless numbers or do you want to look at the current situation.
132k per title doesn't seem like a lot to me, that might be fine for petz or whatever but its not the kind of numbers that will force 3rd parties to support it with big budget titles.
There is no need to spin it though.
The number is in retrospect, meaning third party revenue on Wii was higher than 360 in the same lifecycle. This is great news for the industry at large.
Now it may be true that today, third party developers can make more on 360 because of the larger LTD number and more dedicated users; but it is also true that if things stay the same, Wii third parties have higher growth potential (based on the graphs).
As Shifty pointed out, there are 2 different user base that developers can target. I don't see what's so bad about the news. Whether individual developers learn how to address the new crowd or not, it's a separate question altogether. However they may have to do it anyway, assuming the (rest of) gaming industry wants to go mainstream.
Sure, PS2 sold even better in that timeframe, what has Gamecube got to do with Wii and 360 ?
The news is positive for the industry. Nintendo continues to expand its base. Developers will inevitably take advantage of the huge base.
The number is in retrospect, meaning third party revenue on Wii was higher than 360 in the same lifecycle. This is great news for the industry at large.
Now it may be true that today, third party developers can make more on 360 because of the larger LTD number and more dedicated users; but it is also true that if things stay the same, Wii third parties have higher growth potential (based on the graphs).
As Shifty pointed out, there are 2 different user base that developers can target. I don't see what's so bad about the news. Whether individual developers learn how to address the new crowd or not, it's a separate question altogether. However they may have to do it anyway, assuming the (rest of) gaming industry wants to go mainstream.
Sure, PS2 sold even better in that timeframe, what has Gamecube got to do with Wii and 360 ?
The news is positive for the industry. Nintendo continues to expand its base. Developers will inevitably take advantage of the huge base.
Where can I find these revenue numbers? Copies sold doesn't necessarily equate to revenue.
Argh ! Yes, it's unit sales.
Here's an update to the original article I didn't see:
So this year, third party Wii developers are selling similar volume to 360 in US, MUCH higher in Japan, and unknown in Europe. The price is lower and the development cost is lower. Still good news for the industry (even better for Nintendo of course).
Here's an update to the original article I didn't see:
So this year, third party Wii developers are selling similar volume to 360 in US, MUCH higher in Japan, and unknown in Europe. The price is lower and the development cost is lower. Still good news for the industry (even better for Nintendo of course).
You can't guarantee profitability
Some will be profitable, and some not. It also depends on how tightly they run their ships. There are million sellers on Wii like others. The development cost is lower. I don't see how it's different.
"Crappy" title is a matter of opinion. If they are selling, they are "good shit".
Some will be profitable, and some not. It also depends on how tightly they run their ships. There are million sellers on Wii like others. The development cost is lower. I don't see how it's different.
"Crappy" title is a matter of opinion. If they are selling, they are "good shit".
But the products didn't exist at the same time. The 360 went through its first 20months without the wii being there. That means for a year the 360 sold third party titles that nintendo wasn't selling. Then when the wii finaly came out the 360 was able to sell more than double what the wii was able to do. I don't see how thats a sucess for third party developers. Its very simple to me , you could have developed a wii game for holiday 2006/2007 and sold x amount of copies or you could have deveopled a 360 game for that time frame and sold x +y copies.
because the wii didn't exist for almost a year while the 360 was out.
And so does the xbox and ps3. Wow good thing they are all doing what they are supposed to do.
So the 360 has sold more software this year for third parties than the wii dispite having similar or a smaller user base ? Thats great news for MS huh esp with us getting into the 360 season when a ton of exclusives and big third party titles launch.
Whelp... as you mentioned, This is the Wii 3rd party sales number thread. I have learned that Wii has respectable overall 3rd party unit sales (especially this year, if Mr. Pachter is correct).
If you want to talk only about 360 sales, like in your post above, then perhaps you should start a new thread ?
If you want to talk only about 360 sales, like in your post above, then perhaps you should start a new thread ?
Why the original post brings up the xbox 360s third party sales. So does the original article.
The numbers in the OP gave a reference to interpret Wii's numbers, but your last post talks more about 360 sales and is unrelated to Wii.
Whichever way you try to downplay the achievement, Wii's numbers are impressive. It has almost caught up with 360's 3rd party unit sales in US this year despite being one year late. It also brought an entire new profile of users to the market. This is hardly "doing what they are supposed to do". They have done what Microsoft and Sony couldn't do yet, and they have done so while making tons of money. If third party developers try hard enough, they can now reach new customers they could not touch before.
You can also criticize it for attach ratio, but it is a moot point. That is the nature of the mass market. PS3 and 360 may have higher attach ratio because they sell mostly to the existing core gamers. As long as Wii continues to sell well, and as Wii developers understand the user base more, the software sales should go up further.
This is not to say 360 and PS3 are doomed. Nintendo simply reached the mass market faster than both of them. In the mean time, their audience are very different.
Whichever way you try to downplay the achievement, Wii's numbers are impressive. It has almost caught up with 360's 3rd party unit sales in US this year despite being one year late. It also brought an entire new profile of users to the market. This is hardly "doing what they are supposed to do". They have done what Microsoft and Sony couldn't do yet, and they have done so while making tons of money. If third party developers try hard enough, they can now reach new customers they could not touch before.
You can also criticize it for attach ratio, but it is a moot point. That is the nature of the mass market. PS3 and 360 may have higher attach ratio because they sell mostly to the existing core gamers. As long as Wii continues to sell well, and as Wii developers understand the user base more, the software sales should go up further.
This is not to say 360 and PS3 are doomed. Nintendo simply reached the mass market faster than both of them. In the mean time, their audience are very different.
132k is a mean average, and thus not at all indicative of the likely sales a company could get. If those 3rd party sales are made out of 5 titles selling 30 million between them, and 250 titles picking up the rest, then as a publisher if you can recreate the success of one of the 5 titles, it's a rewarding platform. Whereas if you produce something that's outside of this zone, you'll lose money. Probably more important for publishers is what minimum sales are like. If their game hits the bottom of the sales list, what will returns be like? I expect that's pretty much zero for all platforms though!
Did you look at the original article. Nintendo in its slides brought up and compared its 3rd party sales to the xbox 360 and ps3 sales. I did not do anything but responed to the posts here and the original thread all of which is on topic. Nintendo even provided a nice graph.
I don't understand. The wii (according to vgchartz) has 1m more units sold in NPD teritory than the xbox 360 and is still behind the xbox 360 in third party sales this year. What this shows is that the xbox 360 sells more third party titles this year than nintendo does. It may be great that Nintendo was able to sell so many consoles , that is a great thing , but its not all roses for the wii and 3rd parties. As the xbox 360's user base grows and more third party titles come out this year (most of the big names) the favor may shift even more towards MS.
And so will the ps3 and xbox 360. It actually seems to me that dispite the lower install base the xbox 360 sells more to the core gamers. The xbox 360 will also branch out to casual gamers , not as fast as the wii but it will and they will allways have that core base which seems to buy more games. The 360 titles are also selling at a higher price point which means a higher revenue per sale.
Nintendo has alot of new users each month. I wonder though how many wii games the average wii user has bought over the life time of the console. The mass market is great but they don't buy many games.
You can do the same on xbox 360 and the ps3. I just bought a low budget game called braid for $15 bucks on the market place. Tommorow I will buy another low budget remake called Bionic commando. I also wonder what the cost of flow was and geo wars 2?
I see a ton of games at Toys r us and kaybee (sp?) from $10-$20 bucks on the wii. Rebel Raiders is next week and its only $30. If you go to gamestop.com and look at the preorders for the rest of august there are more $20 games than $50 games. The $50 games are nintendo games or madden. So we aren't talking a $10 diffrence here sometimes we are talking a $40 diffrence in sales at a store.
I don't know what will happen going foward , I think we will see more developers going the force unleashed route. Make a 360/ps3 game then make a wii game based on that game perhaps also port it to the ps2 if it makes sense.
NPD's attach ratios in April
- Xbox 360: software sales ratio: 7.5
- Wii: software sales ratio: 5.3
- PS3: software sales ratio: 4.6
Microsoft has a one year lead to build its numbers with the core gamers who typically spend more on titles. Nintendo is cultivating a new gaming audience one year late. And its user base is now spending on third party titles almost but not quite at the same level of the 360 user base (in US) now. However in Japan, there is simply no comparison at all.
Both have good results but Nintendo surpassed the HD consoles in terms of 3rd party sales at the same lifecycle, achieved MUCH better growth with less first party and 3rd party development resources. I'd call that a better result and greater potential if you really want to compare.
It is starting to look rosy with the latest figures, especially the Year-to-date one. The fact is 360 user base is growing at a slower pace while Wii was stocked out for many months. 3rd party titles will come out for all 3 platforms. I don't see why it only applies to 360.Now the consumers may change its spending behaviour, but without any evidence, I don't think we need to "worry" about it yet.
Sure, that's what I have been saying isn't it ? They are 2 different audiences. Wii reached the mass market earlier than anyone else. Along the way, I am sure Wii has picked up some core gamers too.
Sigh this is going to get us no where so here are my last replys.
The head start doesn't matter when looking at sales this year. The wii was for most of the year so far tied in units are in the lead by up to 1m units in NA. Thus it doesn't matter, the reality is that its selling less third party software this year than the xbox 360 is dispite the larget install base.
For the first half of the year ms hasn't had much of anything to note. However later this year ms will blitz with a ton of first party games and third party games. All of which should sell tons of copies and create excitement for other games. The wii already released its biggest title this year in the form of wii fit and to a lesser extent mario kart and super smash brothers. The 360 also has a price drop.
The ps3 will also grow its third party sales. They already had a huge exclusive third party game in the form of MGS4 . MS has yet to have one of those so far.
Shifty posted the attach rates. Those include games like wii play. It shows that on average the xbox consumer will buy more games than the wii gamer. As they both branch out into more casual gamers these numbers will go down , however the core 360 users buy alot more games than the core wii owners.
The head start doesn't matter when looking at sales this year. The wii was for most of the year so far tied in units are in the lead by up to 1m units in NA. Thus it doesn't matter, the reality is that its selling less third party software this year than the xbox 360 is dispite the larget install base.
But that doesn't matter as the xbox 360 is not at the same point in its life cycle and no dev is going to look at those metrics as anything usefull in decided where to put their money. You may call it a greater potential but all it shows is that they have a massive amount of new users adding to a larger install base that aren't buying as many games as those on the 360. Lets also not forget that nintendo has core gamers also , the same ones who bought a n64 and gamecube and made the nintendo games on those platforms million sellers are on the wii also. So you can't just point to ms and say look its the core gamer. The wii has them too. What we do see is that the casual gamers buy less titles than the people on the 360.
For the first half of the year ms hasn't had much of anything to note. However later this year ms will blitz with a ton of first party games and third party games. All of which should sell tons of copies and create excitement for other games. The wii already released its biggest title this year in the form of wii fit and to a lesser extent mario kart and super smash brothers. The 360 also has a price drop.
The ps3 will also grow its third party sales. They already had a huge exclusive third party game in the form of MGS4 . MS has yet to have one of those so far.
Shifty posted the attach rates. Those include games like wii play. It shows that on average the xbox consumer will buy more games than the wii gamer. As they both branch out into more casual gamers these numbers will go down , however the core 360 users buy alot more games than the core wii owners.
The majority of nintendo's core fan base has already purchased a wii. I don't know anyone that was even remotely interested in a nintendo console in the last 2 generations that hasn't picked up a wii. I would say that nintendo is long past the core gamer market.