Forza Motorsport [XBSX|S, PC, XGP]

There is nothing 'miraculous' about Cyperpunk's so-called comeback. They started from a pretty poor starting state at release and simply spent a ton of time and effort fixing what they could. It's still arguably not that great a game and still not what it was originally heralded to be, either.

But more importantly - people *wanted* to give CDPR some benefit of the doubt. People *wanted* to turn around and praise CDPR again.

But thats exactly why it is "miraculous". It is a statistical outlier. This game could have been a huge disaster for CDPR.
Out of pure luck and people wanted to give it a chance, it got saved. The conditions under which Cyberpunk recovered as project aren't normal.
The game got enough second chance and purchases that CDPR gradually ironed out the huge issues. It may not be an amazing game, but it got enough support to get an after-launch polish for a length amount of time that other games would have already sunk into a financial red line until then.
 
But thats exactly why it is "miraculous". It is a statistical outlier. This game could have been a huge disaster for CDPR.
Out of pure luck and people wanted to give it a chance, it got saved. The conditions under which Cyberpunk recovered as project aren't normal.
The game got enough second chance and purchases that CDPR gradually ironed out the huge issues. It may not be an amazing game, but it got enough support to get an after-launch polish for a length amount of time that other games would have already sunk into a financial red line until then.
I get what you're saying, but I guess my contention is that it wasn't 'luck'. People were talking about an 'expected' turnaround for CP2077 very early on. And I'd actually say that CP2077, despite the outrage we did see, was treated kinda lightly by reviewers, and gamers gave it a sort of indefinite grace period to become better, because they all *wanted* to praise CDPR and CP2077. Few people feel the same about Microsoft 1st party games. Many are entirely fine just crapping on their games and never worrying about changing their opinion about it again.

And all this comes because of prior reputation. Wasn't merely luck. Microsoft have themselves to blame for Xbox's poor reputation for game releases.
 
wat de heck is this game...
  • mandatory unskippable cutscenes and races!
  • doesnt work with dualsense in 2023!
  • stutter galore!
how the heck did this get greenlit...
 
wat de heck is this game...
  • mandatory unskippable cutscenes and races!
  • doesnt work with dualsense in 2023!
  • stutter galore!
how the heck did this get greenlit...
It's baffling.

I'm a HUGE racing game fan. I've got a racing setup and everything. This is the first Forza game I haven't bought. I had a strange feeling about it in the lead up to launch so I held off, and I'm glad I did. I subbed to GP just to test it out and was completely disappointed in what I experienced. This game is a long way away from me purchasing it. It needs a massive amount of performance and bug fixes, as well as additional content.

Pretty sad.
 
Right but Sony is realaseing only one first party game this year, Spiderman 2 and nobody cares about that. What is more important than # of games msft can push per year is quality of the games (specially after redfail). Not every game will be a subject of miracle comeback like the cyberpunk.
I dont know, maybe buying big studios/publishers is good for msft because i have a feeling that they not fully understanding the market they are competing in and they need to acquire this knowledge "hey guys you are doing it wrong".

I am not sure about fair reviews, there was a talk about Sony having nailed the formula that produces 9s10s. I think the reviewers could be more susceptible to it.
At the same time first party games from Sony are always more polished and more cinematic, maybe not necessarily a better games but they sell a better overall experience IMO. Like an Iphone (this premium product feeling).
Perhaps msft needs to learn how to improve on this formula.
Yes Sony is releasing only one first party game this year, but Sony doesn't get flack for releasing only one first party title from the mainstream and fans. That is the difference. Sony has years of good will with the ps4 they can burn through. If you look on line at X and other sites Redfall is constantly brought up as a MS disaster and now they are bringing up Starfield. The narrative is shifting to the quality of MS games because now they are releasing multiple games a year.

Sony doesn't really have a formula that produces 9s and 10s. The only game so far released by sony this gen that is above 90 is GOD of War on metacritic. I think Spider-man 2 is sitting at a 91 right now with a few days before release.
 
A thing I really liked in Forza 4, was the "arcade" mode, which had the same gameplay as the standard mode, BUT, you could chose from the start, any track, and any car in the game to do a race, or time trial, without having to grind for hours to unlock cars. There are lots of cars i'd love to try in VR in GT7, but the grinding is just too tedious.
 
Last edited:
Yes Sony is releasing only one first party game this year, but Sony doesn't get flack for releasing only one first party title from the mainstream and fans. That is the difference. Sony has years of good will with the ps4 they can burn through. If you look on line at X and other sites Redfall is constantly brought up as a MS disaster and now they are bringing up Starfield. The narrative is shifting to the quality of MS games because now they are releasing multiple games a year.

Sony doesn't really have a formula that produces 9s and 10s. The only game so far released by sony this gen that is above 90 is GOD of War on metacritic. I think Spider-man 2 is sitting at a 91 right now with a few days before release.

It’s less goodwill and more mediocre efforts.

Starfield is not only poorly optimised at launch but is a weaker game than Skyrim.

Forza promise vs launch is a straight up lie.

It’s less about metacritic and more about community reception that sets mindshare.
 
Yes Sony is releasing only one first party game this year, but Sony doesn't get flack for releasing only one first party title from the mainstream and fans. That is the difference. Sony has years of good will with the ps4 they can burn through. If you look on line at X and other sites Redfall is constantly brought up as a MS disaster and now they are bringing up Starfield. The narrative is shifting to the quality of MS games because now they are releasing multiple games a year.

Sony doesn't really have a formula that produces 9s and 10s. The only game so far released by sony this gen that is above 90 is GOD of War on metacritic. I think Spider-man 2 is sitting at a 91 right now with a few days before release.

And who is complaining about msft not realasing enough this year? Because as i said this year is so packed that i dont see any critique. Yes Redfall was a disaster, but was High Fiive rush distaster? AOE? MS flight sim? FH5 ? Psychonauts? So one game and people loosing their minds?
BTW you have to be completely out of touch to think that Starfield was a disaster. Completely out of touch with reality.

Regardless if they have formula or not, my point still stands. They seems to create more premium products than competition. Or perhaps they are better att selling their products like a premium. One example will be Forspoken sony trailer was much better than anything else showed before. Even thou game was utter shit.
 
PD just have way better artists tbh. Compare Forza Motorsport (the original one, how silly is it that I have to specify this) and GT4. FM was doing much more tech wise but GT4 has stood the test of time so much better..It just looks right. Forza even to this day just has weird shading, they cannot get plastic correct. Wheels truly look terrible in the upgrade menu, they still use wonky car models and just overall the look is not up to par with PD.

I agree. Many things just doesnt look right in FM. Car shading look correct under certain circumstances, but often look flat. Color scheme doesnt look right. The AO under the cars is way too strong. Headlights doenst pop enough. The color mapping seems a little off to me. PD just seem to be ahead artisticaly.
 
Your remark about a PS2 exclusive looking better than the XB equivalent smacks of trolling, If you are wanting a meaningful discussion around this, you'd need to pretty something better than 'this game looks better to me'. If you can't support that view in this thread because it requires a CRT, just keep that opinion to yourself as unproductive in this context.

If something look good isnt just a matter of technical bells and wistles. I think its rather intressting how older games with much simplier rendering and assets in certain aspects can look better than newer games. If certain aspects of an older game look better, what did they do right and where does the newer game fail?
 
Past games were made for a single hardware spec. They had traditional release schedules with no cushion of GaaS or acceptance of release-and-patch-later products. The codebase would have been simpler/smaller (less work, smaller teams, more efficient project management). Rasterization with baked static lighting gives much more bang-for-buck than dynamic time-of-day, RTRT, etc. No COVID disruption.

Hindsight being 20/20 I think they ought to have taken the FH4->FH5 approach and made FM8 a less technically ambitious update. Back-burner the rendering overhaul, focus on things that directly impact gameplay and player retention (onboarding, tutorials, progression, etc.)

If they ever want to get serious about reinvigorating this franchise they always have the option of opening up the game to modding, whether that means an in-game track authoring tool, or the ability to import and share custom authored tracks, cars, plugins, etc. In an AI/ML era where a drawing in MS Paint can be converted into a photo-realistic image there ought to be a way of generating and testing custom tracks that both look good and function well without spending months in Maya and QA testing. If they want a long-tailed GaaS lifespan then allow the community to build an ecosystem around it and feel invested in its success.
 
Past games were made for a single hardware spec. They had traditional release schedules with no cushion of GaaS or acceptance of release-and-patch-later products. The codebase would have been simpler/smaller (less work, smaller teams, more efficient project management). Rasterization with baked static lighting gives much more bang-for-buck than dynamic time-of-day, RTRT, etc. No COVID disruption.

Hindsight being 20/20 I think they ought to have taken the FH4->FH5 approach and made FM8 a less technically ambitious update. Back-burner the rendering overhaul, focus on things that directly impact gameplay and player retention (onboarding, tutorials, progression, etc.)

If they ever want to get serious about reinvigorating this franchise they always have the option of opening up the game to modding, whether that means an in-game track authoring tool, or the ability to import and share custom authored tracks, cars, plugins, etc. In an AI/ML era where a drawing in MS Paint can be converted into a photo-realistic image there ought to be a way of generating and testing custom tracks that both look good and function well without spending months in Maya and QA testing. If they want a long-tailed GaaS lifespan then allow the community to build an ecosystem around it and feel invested in its success.

I don't think they could have "back-burnered" the rendering overhaul as FM is no longer the only game and Turn 10 isn't the only studio using the engine now. Playground Games likely needs the real time GI updates for Fable and the next FH. Delaying updates to the rendering overhaul would also potentially delay those projects. Basically everthing Turn 10 does now WRT the engine also has a knock on effect on anything Playground Games is doing.

Regards,
SB
 
That seems to be a problem of their(MS+T10) own making. If they're using an engine whose technical direction is dictated by the needs and schedules of other projects (inarguably more important ones, at that), then I see no light at the end of the tunnel here.
 
It’s less goodwill and more mediocre efforts.

Starfield is not only poorly optimised at launch but is a weaker game than Skyrim.

Forza promise vs launch is a straight up lie.

It’s less about metacritic and more about community reception that sets mindshare.
Starfield has been a much better experience out of the box than Skyrim was for me

I can't comment on forza as I am not really interested in racers so I don't know what was a straight up lie. You'd have to be more specific


I responded to Sony releasing 9s and 10s and like I said it isn't true and you haven't really done anything to prove otherwise except point out issues with MS's releases
And who is complaining about msft not realasing enough this year? Because as i said this year is so packed that i dont see any critique. Yes Redfall was a disaster, but was High Fiive rush distaster? AOE? MS flight sim? FH5 ? Psychonauts? So one game and people loosing their minds?
BTW you have to be completely out of touch to think that Starfield was a disaster. Completely out of touch with reality.

Regardless if they have formula or not, my point still stands. They seems to create more premium products than competition. Or perhaps they are better att selling their products like a premium. One example will be Forspoken sony trailer was much better than anything else showed before. Even thou game was utter shit.

LIke I said the narrative has started to shift from not releasing enough games to releasing sub par quality. I actually have loved almost all of MS's releases this year including Starfield. I think its a great game that plays extremely well on my series x and pc. But the narrative out there is that is a diaster due to its meta critic

But does sony create more premium products if the bulk of their content is only in the 80s with a few in the 90s a generation? The previous two Spider-man games are in the 80s , the horizon games are in the 80s, gran turismo is in the 80s , ratchet and clank is in the 80s. What are the other big titles from Sony that are 9s and 10s ? You have god of war this generation and maybe spider-man 2 which is at a 90 exactly with another day before release.

Sony currently gets a shine put on their products that MS doesn't have the luxury of getting and the media itself points it out

1697692280311.png


The wasteland that has been the xbox release schedule for the last few years limits the accolades we can give the game.


Here is the ign reviewer for Starfield

1697692402983.png

You don't see the same venom when Sony buys a company and then releases their games as exclusives in the media. Dan's review of Starfield for IGN was a 7 while all the other IGN's in other countries reviewed it at a 9-10
1697692501604.png
 
Not again with the console war conspiracies and whining. This brings back memories of the years of the 16bit and 32bit console wars when kids from each side, usually the losing side was nitpicking how journalists/magazines are sabotaging the console of their favor bringing nothing productive into any discussion. 🤦‍♂️

Opinions vary and there will always be exceptions. Just freaking deal with it
 
It's not a conspiracy theory when he actually points out the evidence of the bias.

My opinion is that MS deserves the 8.5s for Halo Infinite, Starfield and FM. They aren't bad scores at all. To silence more critics though it would have been better if they were polished to 9+. That would get them into "I really wish I had an Xbox" territory.
 
Fixed an exploit where DLC car duplicates purchased from the Showroom could be used on another account or platform where the DLC has not been purchased

--

So... Do they means Microsoft actually already have the backend for a true cross buy between Xbox pc Xbox console and steam?

Because the game is already crossbuy on Xbox pc and Xbox console. So surely that patch note was referring to steam
 
It's not a conspiracy theory when he actually points out the evidence of the bias.

My opinion is that MS deserves the 8.5s for Halo Infinite, Starfield and FM. They aren't bad scores at all. To silence more critics though it would have been better if they were polished to 9+. That would get them into "I really wish I had an Xbox" territory.
Not sure who you are responding too but there are some people who will deny something even when confronted with evidence. Just block them and move on like I have done.

It's not a conspiracy when the people doing it are saying it out loud
 
Ironicaly this game has made me curious about GT7. So im wondering how FM and GT7 singel player modes compare?

I´m a very casual racing fan. I had some good times with GT3 on ps2, and played a bit FM on xbox360. Im not very interrested in cars. I think red is my facorite car color. I have zero interrest in tuning the different upgrades for cars to find the right balance, and I have no clue what all the different parts are. I cant think of anything more boring. I have my hands full just trying to do drive decently. I think these kinds of racers can be very fun. Trying to learn the correct line, and learning when to break and accelerate is a lot more engaging for me than something like Forza Horizon.

*Since Im not a die hard motorsport fan graphics do matter to me in these kinds of games, and GT7 does look more pleasing to me.

*GT7 seem to have the same kind of music and soundeffects in menus as GT3 and I quite like those. The music in FM seem a little pretentious to me. The voiceover when starting FM for the first time sounded very cringy to me. I prefer the vibe of GT7 more.

*The cafe mode seem like something I might enjoy, learning a little about car history while racing those cars seem fun.

*Im not sure how I feel about the car leveling stuff in FM. Its a bit grindy and a bit too gamiefied, on the other hand its nice to just swap your parts around wihout loosing any car points you have for that particular car. Earning credits to spend on cars and upgrades is also grindy and and you cant swap stuff around like in FM.

*Could GT7 get frustrating? The reverse feature in FM is a nice feature to have. But its easy to overuse it and take away from the excitement.

*Im getting serious gas for PSVR2. But all games so far seem to be small gimmicky stuff, except for GT7. Its alot of money for someone who´s a very casual racer fan. (If Alyx is released for PS5 I´ll by PSVR2 in a heartbeat.)

You guys who have played both, how do you think they compare?
 
Back
Top