Formula 1 - 2015 season

[Kaotik]

No, in fact I'm sure Alonso would have preferred Button - he's a known entity to him and his engineering knowledge and Honda relationship will inevitably aid him, overall.

The thought is that this was more about McLaren ownership with Dennis supposedly seeking significant backing from some Danish financial sources such that KMag would be kept on and he could secure a greater shareholding in McLaren and achieve overall control. Seems that this did not happen, which leaves questions over the state of the boardroom relations at McLaren.

I was thinking more in the lines "is Button comfortable with the privileges Alonso wants" rather than "which team mate Alonso would prefer"

 

[Dave Baumann]

Seems the FIA have confirmed a loophole in the Engine homologation regulations that points out the letter of the rules only states the date of the submission of the design is only stipulated in the first year, the spirit of the rules was intended the date be applicable for all years, but the letter states only the first. As a result Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes can introduce their u[grades through the year, taking more time over them, however the "tokens" for each part of the engine still apply so they are still limited in the scope of what they can change (and by the number of engines they can use per season), they can just take more time in evaluating which of the changes offers the best bang for the buck.

Ironically, as this is Honda's first year they still have to submit their design in Feb, with no further upgrades in the season.

 

[Kaotik]

Seems the FIA have confirmed a loophole in the Engine homologation regulations that points out the letter of the rules only states the date of the submission of the design is only stipulated in the first year, the spirit of the rules was intended the date be applicable for all years, but the letter states only the first. As a result Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes can introduce their u[grades through the year, taking more time over them, however the "tokens" for each part of the engine still apply so they are still limited in the scope of what they can change (and by the number of engines they can use per season), they can just take more time in evaluating which of the changes offers the best bang for the buck.

Ironically, as this is Honda's first year they still have to submit their design in Feb, with no further upgrades in the season.

For the sake of sport, this would be great if you'd replace Honda with Mercedes, no-one really likes one team/engine dominating the season even if it's one favourite

 

[Rurouni]

Btw, do Honda subjected to the same 4 PU limitation or they can use 5? If FIA cherry pick what rules Honda must follow (no upgrades + 4 PU) then it wouldn't be fair. It would be especially bad for PU manufacturers who wants to enter F1 at a later year because by then they must enter F1 100% on the money, otherwise they don't have the chance to making meaningful upgrade to their PU.

 

[Dave Baumann]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/30731004

Turns out that Honda are subject to the 4 units per season rule.

 

[DJ12]

So the bad of the change and not the good.

Seems fair lol

 

[Dave Baumann]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117386

The FIA saw sense. Honda will have to submit their engine in Feb for homologation, but then they will be allowed the same number of tokens as the other manufacturers for in season development. Effectively the are being treated as though they were in their second year.

 

[Bludd]

It seems to be much more complicated

riday's ruling will allow Honda to change a given amount of its engine calculated by the average of the number of tokens unused by the other manufacturers by the time of the first race in Australia on 16 March.
In the example given by FIA race director Charlie Whiting, and seen by BBC Sport, he writes: "If the three 2014 manufacturers have eight, seven and five unused tokens respectively at the start of the season, then the new manufacturer will be allowed to use six during the season (the average rounded down to the nearest whole number)".

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/30860212

 

[Rurouni]

What I'm confused about (which I'm fairly certain before) is that engine must be homologated before use and I believe the old manufacturer can only homologate once or they must use their 2014 engine. But looking at the article, it looks like they can homologate multiple times until they run out of tokens. Which one is it? If Ferrari and Renault won't be ready with their 2015 engine then they basically still have 32 tokens. If Merc use all their tokens that means Honda will have at least 21 tokens. There won't be a scenario like the in the BBC article with an example of 8,7 and 5 tokens unused because that would mean all those manufacturer have homologated their 2015 engines and only Honda can develop further with 6 tokens. Which one is it? Multiple homologation until run out of tokens or single homologation with whatever number of tokens they have used?

 

[Bludd]

It's all a clusterfuck. Who knows? Maybe there will be protests.

 

[Lightman]

What I'm confused about (which I'm fairly certain before) is that engine must be homologated before use and I believe the old manufacturer can only homologate once or they must use their 2014 engine. But looking at the article, it looks like they can homologate multiple times until they run out of tokens. Which one is it? If Ferrari and Renault won't be ready with their 2015 engine then they basically still have 32 tokens. If Merc use all their tokens that means Honda will have at least 21 tokens. There won't be a scenario like the in the BBC article with an example of 8,7 and 5 tokens unused because that would mean all those manufacturer have homologated their 2015 engines and only Honda can develop further with 6 tokens. Which one is it? Multiple homologation until run out of tokens or single homologation with whatever number of tokens they have used?

Originally it was assumed your first option was right and teams would need to race with 2014 engines till they decided to homologate this year engine from which point they would race new spec power unit.
But then sometime in December FIA decided to take another view and allow in season upgrades but still limited by tokens available to manufacturers.
Now I'm not 100% sure if this is to do with all components in PU or combustion engine still has to be homologated as a whole before allowed to race it leaving battery and ERS free to upgrade through out 2015??

 

[Kaotik]

Originally it was assumed your first option was right and teams would need to race with 2014 engines till they decided to homologate this year engine from which point they would race new spec power unit.
But then sometime in December FIA decided to take another view and allow in season upgrades but still limited by tokens available to manufacturers.
Now I'm not 100% sure if this is to do with all components in PU or combustion engine still has to be homologated as a whole before allowed to race it leaving battery and ERS free to upgrade through out 2015??

Huh? It was known all along that while you couldn't improve your engine during season, you could improve it between seasons. I can't remember which year the "total freeze" is/was scheduled to be but it was few years from now

 

[Dave Baumann]

The intention of the rules would be that the engines would be homologated in every Feb, just prior to the season. Following the first year the tokens would apply, restricting the improvements they can do between each year, and the homologation of the upgraded engine would happen in Feb with their engines staying the same for the remainder of the year, with however many tokens they had used (presumably they would have tried to use as many as possible).

The loophole that Ferrari exploited with the FIA is that the rules documentation does not explicitly state a homologation date for the upgraded engine after the first year, so effectively they are now free to use their tokens through the year, rather than the compressed development time before the season starts.

Presumably this means that final 2015 engine homologation will occur when they have used their tokens or at the end of the season (I imagine they will want to use all their tokens before the end of the season).

 

[Rurouni]

But they must race with a homologated PU, which should happen once a year. If they use 10 tokens (and thus homologate the PU so the improved PU can be used) and they use another 20 tokens in mid season, thus homologate it again then we can potentially see multiple homologation. Personally I don't mind the PU can be upgraded through out the season, but I think the rule was made to prevent exactly this kind of stuff. Before this Ferrari interpretation, the thinking was you need to homologate before Feb 28th, then you can homologate whenever you want, but only once, then it's becoming multiple homologation.

 

[Dave Baumann]

"As it is not specifically stated... when a power unit may be modified in accordance with appendix 4 [of the technical regulations], we feel that the weighted items (32 in this case) may be introduced at any time during the 2015 season," said the note, a copy of which has been seen by AUTOSPORT.

"The basic homologated power unit will remain that which was homologated for the 2014 season, including any changes made in accordance with paragraph 1 (c) of appendix 4 [of the sporting regulations]."

 

[Dave Baumann]

2015 noses:

 

[Davros]

Still on the fugly side

 

[Kaotik]

new cars pouring in
Ferrari:

Sauber:

Mercedes:

McLaren:

 

[Bludd]

So no nose abominations yet.

I want to see Alonso be able to do more laps in the McLaren than they did the first time they tried the Honda PU.

 

[entity279]

Such a non-topic this nose was (is). And they changed the rules for this "lack of prettiness" reason.