Formula 1 - 2010 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
Oops.
Yeah, that was bad. If Alonso can manage some points tomorrow, it will be a good damage limitation.
Webber smoked them, what an incredible laptime. Webber is on a roll.
Kubica looked good, though. Same with Massa who is a self-professed hater of this track.
Good to see Liuzzi in Q3. He needs good results to keep his seat.
Rosberg and Schumacher are playing mind games against each other.
Rosberg said post-qualifying that he was hugely disappointed that he couldn't get on the front row. He outqualified Schumi and he's not happy. Schumi on the other hand said Rosberg held him up in Q3.
This could get nasty.
Rosberg said post-qualifying that he was hugely disappointed that he couldn't get on the front row. He outqualified Schumi and he's not happy. Schumi on the other hand said Rosberg held him up in Q3.
This could get nasty.
Ike Turner
Veteran
Ah! Schumi passed Alonzo.....wonder if he will stay 6th? Heard they weren't allowed to pass each other after the pace car left.
Well, the rules have changed to make the pass line after the SC to be before the start finish line, so normally Schu's pass looks to have been OK. However there's some commentry over Twitter that says that you have to hold station if the SC is coming in on the last lap!
The green flags were the "key", they waved green flags which meaned the "race was back on", and Schumachers pass was fine by the rules.
He's been given a 20sec penalty.
EDIT: Which I should say means he's demoted to 12th place.
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tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Damon Hill has probably been waiting for this, something he could blame Schumacher with 
Brilliant work by Webber. He's on a roll, very nice.
Alonso had a great drive, I thought and he was a long time on those tyres. He was helped by the first safety car, but there were so many SCs it would have happened anyway. It was an inspired and opportunistic tyre change on, what, lap 2? Really good result considering where he started.
Kubica was really good, too. Excellent result for him and for Renault.
Regarding the Schumi-Alonso overtake on the last lap:
U40.13U If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.
Edit: Mercedes have appealed the penalty Schumacher received.
Edit2: actually, they have not appealed the penalty (as drive-throughs cannot be appealed) but they have appealed the decision. Hm.
Alonso had a great drive, I thought and he was a long time on those tyres. He was helped by the first safety car, but there were so many SCs it would have happened anyway. It was an inspired and opportunistic tyre change on, what, lap 2? Really good result considering where he started.
Kubica was really good, too. Excellent result for him and for Renault.
Regarding the Schumi-Alonso overtake on the last lap:
U40.13U If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.
Edit: Mercedes have appealed the penalty Schumacher received.
Edit2: actually, they have not appealed the penalty (as drive-throughs cannot be appealed) but they have appealed the decision. Hm.
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I think the key is that green flags were waved at the corner, which should mean despite what that part of rulebook says, that the race is back on. The rule could be read as the safety car will enter pits regardless on the last lap, but in this case as green flags were waved, it entered pits just like any other lap of the race, not to finish the race
It seems contradictory that you can have both safety car rules, which by definition is a full course yellow, and at the same time have green flags waved which means cleared to race. Which do you pick? I would have thought that if you had to stay in position then the yellows should still be out and so should the safety car.
Extremely happy for Webber. He deserves this and what a brilliant race he showed. Well done!
I'm a bit unhappy about the whole Schumacher ruling. If anything, a 20 seconds penalty is the worst possible action that could have been taken. Sure, rule 4.13 is explicit - but IMO it wasn't clear it should be applied since the message "safety car in this lap" + the green flags after the safety car line implied it wasn't a race that was about to finish under safety car.
Even if race-control planned it differently - they showed it differently and handing a 20 second penalty is the worst they could do. Considering it's anything but clear/cut, they should have just made an exception and reverted the positions. Simple as that.
I'm a bit unhappy about the whole Schumacher ruling. If anything, a 20 seconds penalty is the worst possible action that could have been taken. Sure, rule 4.13 is explicit - but IMO it wasn't clear it should be applied since the message "safety car in this lap" + the green flags after the safety car line implied it wasn't a race that was about to finish under safety car.
Even if race-control planned it differently - they showed it differently and handing a 20 second penalty is the worst they could do. Considering it's anything but clear/cut, they should have just made an exception and reverted the positions. Simple as that.
Phil you have this article in the sporting regs
16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident :
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping ;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and U20U seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned Uin the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b)U.
My bold.
16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident :
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping ;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and U20U seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned Uin the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b)U.
My bold.
Bludd,
I know. I just think it's not fair. The punishment must fit the crime. The crime being not knowing rule 40.13 well enough to apply it despite visual indicators (green flags pointing to a restart before the finishing line) that mislead. 20 seconds penalty under safety car sends you right back and that's totally wrong.
If anything, race-control stuffed up by sending the wrong signals - that being message "safety car in this lap" and the green flags after the safety car pulled into the pits with turned off lights.
The last race that ended in a safety car finish (Melbourne last year if I recall correctly; the safety car pulled into the pits before the finish line as well) also had race-control leave out yellow flags with SC signs - implying that the race at that moment was still in a controlled state and that overtaking was prohibited.
I know. I just think it's not fair. The punishment must fit the crime. The crime being not knowing rule 40.13 well enough to apply it despite visual indicators (green flags pointing to a restart before the finishing line) that mislead. 20 seconds penalty under safety car sends you right back and that's totally wrong.
If anything, race-control stuffed up by sending the wrong signals - that being message "safety car in this lap" and the green flags after the safety car pulled into the pits with turned off lights.
The last race that ended in a safety car finish (Melbourne last year if I recall correctly; the safety car pulled into the pits before the finish line as well) also had race-control leave out yellow flags with SC signs - implying that the race at that moment was still in a controlled state and that overtaking was prohibited.
Just rewatched the race again and thought I'd post this for added clarity:
If this was intended to demonstrate that "the race will end whilst the safety car is deployed", they sure made an extremely poor effort. If anything, this just looks like the complete opposite, which further strengthens Brawns/Schumachers case and action.
It'll be interesting to see what the appeal against the decision will yield and although I think Mercedes has a very strong argument, I really doubt the FIA will do much about it. Having to change the result again will just make them look even more stupid and incompetent.
- Lap 78 Webber at the height of the casino - message "safety car in this lap" gets sent to broadcast
- Safety car goes out, round information bar on top goes from yellow "Lap 78 SC" to normal "Lap 78".
- Green flags beyond the white line.
- Webber passes white line.
If this was intended to demonstrate that "the race will end whilst the safety car is deployed", they sure made an extremely poor effort. If anything, this just looks like the complete opposite, which further strengthens Brawns/Schumachers case and action.
It'll be interesting to see what the appeal against the decision will yield and although I think Mercedes has a very strong argument, I really doubt the FIA will do much about it. Having to change the result again will just make them look even more stupid and incompetent.
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