Formula 1 - 2009 Season

[entity279]

If you want to use the rules strickt after the first lap you can give the whole field a drive true penalty after the first lap. Also I understand even less why you should be punished if you leave the track but dont even gain a position.

No you cannot, because only Kimmi can be accused of gaining a position this way.

All the ''punish him'' people can say is: but but but its in the rules!. That is weird to begin with because F1 always bends the rules and secondly there are very good and justified arguments for not giving a penalty on the first lap. Cant you come up with a good argument on why he should be punished?

The argument is of course that he gained a position after coming back on the track. You can say that the overtake is the effect of KERS instead, but no, even KERS cannot help you pass through other cars as if you were a ghost .

Because there was no room, he should have braked before that corner as is was quite obvious that he had the chance.

 

[Bludd]

It's not everyone's common sense, it is the common sense of the stewards and the race director. They didn't punish it, because it is common practice to be lenient when there are so many cars close together in the first few corners. If Kimi had outbraked himself or crashed into someone or otherwise forced someone else off the road, it would have been another matter, but nothing like that happened.

 

[infinity4]

I never thought kimi got big advantage going around. Besides I thought Heidfeld and Glock braked too late that they slowed down not that kimi got faster? Hence so big gap between Kubica and Heidfeld.

 

[Kaotik]

Not to mention if any team would have though he did something wrong, they could have appeal about it, no-one did.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

What you're saying is, Kimi had no choice to leave the track and thus, the advantage he gained, should be overlooked, when in reality, Kimi did have a choice - he just decided to go out, rather than slow down and fall back.

If he did have a advantage, maybe you would be right. But as he didnt, your wrong. And as said above, no team complained, did you really think there wouldnt be a complaint if he really did had a advantage or if teams thought he did something that should be punished?

 

[Davros]

wrt kimi, he gained no time advantage going off track, he actually took a wider line ie: covering more distance therefore the only advantage he gained was not hitting anyone

 

[Phil]

If he did have a advantage, maybe you would be right. But as he didnt, your wrong. And as said above, no team complained, did you really think there wouldnt be a complaint if he really did had a advantage or if teams thought he did something that should be punished?

You really don't get it do you? Why would anyone ever leave the track, if not to gain an advantage?

If he had not left the track, he would have had to slow down and fall back behind the cars he overtook by leaving the track. That's an advantage.

Also note, that Kimi left the track holding position 4 or 5 and entered on position 3.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

You really don't get it do you? Why would anyone ever leave the track, if not to gain an advantage?

If he had not left the track, he would have had to slow down and fall back behind the cars he overtook by leaving the track. That's an advantage.

Also note, that Kimi left the track holding position 4 or 5 and entered on position 3.

Normally cutting a chicane net's you a faster lap time, was Kimi's line faster than a proper racing line? That's an honest question, which I would like to know. Coming into the first corner Kimi was fourth even at the apex and at that point he couldn't turn it, because Trulli/glock? was right next to him, forcing him to go wide.

If you stop the footage right when Kimi's right front tire re-enters the track, it's hard to say whether he's third or fourth, and if you go back a little bit more in the youtube video you provided, say to about 29-30 sec mark, you can see that at that point Kimi hasn't gained anything in regards to the other cars and after that it's just the Kers giving him the speed. Imo those things are important when deciding whether there was an advantage.

 

[DJ12]

wrt kimi, he gained no time advantage going off track, he actually took a wider line ie: covering more distance therefore the only advantage he gained was not hitting anyone

Not at all true.

Wide line = faster round the corner to being with, he could put his foot on the gas quicker and enable his KERS system.

While he may not have passed someone on that corner (I cannot remember it now, will have to review the video) he would have an enormous advantage by the end of the straight.

 

[Bludd]

Why are you still arguing about this? It is a non-issue. No one has sent a complaint to the FIA about it, no one cares.

 

[DJ12]

Why are you?

Just because no one complained doesn't make it right.

If you were walking down the street in your birthday suit and no one complained would that be OK?

I am not the only one bringing up the point, but I guess others are OK because they agree with you?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Why are you?

Just because no one complained doesn't make it right.

If you were walking down the street in your birthday suit and no one complained would that be OK?

I am not the only one bringing up the point, but I guess others are OK because they agree with you?

If nobody complains about it it would be reasonable to think that it is considerd normal or accepted that you walk around in your birthday suit so why would it be a problem then? Just because your opinion might be different doesnt make it wrong. Have you ever considerd that the majority might think different than you? Its the same thing with Kimi. If nobody in the paddock complains, or even says a word about it, do you really think that there are people who think the move kimi made was wrong?

If you'd just admit you want to bitch about something Ferrari than finally we can get this over with.

 

[Kaotik]

Well, there's 1 real F1 driver so far who has commented on it, and he said you don't go there unless you have to to avoid others, you just get dirt on your tires

 

[Bludd]

Why are you?

Just because no one complained doesn't make it right.

If you were walking down the street in your birthday suit and no one complained would that be OK?

I am not the only one bringing up the point, but I guess others are OK because they agree with you?

You can argue the morals of this until you're blue in the face. It will not do anything. If a team does not lodge a complaint or if the stewards of the meeting don't announce they are going to investigate it, nothing will happen no matter what I, you or anyone think. I don't care if you agree or disagree with me, our opinions don't matter at all. I'm more interested in the investigation into the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix.

 

[Davros]

No one has sent a complaint to the FIA about it,

I did

 

[Bludd]

I did

I hear they are calling an extraordinary WMSC meeting!

 

[Kaotik]

I'll bet they'll rip Kimi's superlicense there, and say that they never gave him one because he was so inexperienced at the time, so he has been driving illegally and his World Championship will be cancelled aswell

 

[Phil]

The larger issue at hand, is the inconsistency of the rules applied by the FIA/stewards. The rules are very clear in their meaning and which ever way you look at it, should be enforced to reduce missunderstandings and level the playing field for each and everyone.

Any driver sticking to the rules, slowed down for la source. Kimi did not, and by his positioning and speed, it is quite evident that he did not intend to stay on the track. If we assume, that there would be a tyre-stack or a sandpit outside la source (forcing Kimi to stay on the track), he would have lost more than position 5 as a result of his speed and disadvantageous position on the outter side of the corner.

If the rules state that this is and should be allowed/ignored or if this scenario wouldn't be defined at all - fair enough. The fact that the rules state explicitly that this is NOT allowed however, underlines why Kimi should have been punished for it. If his detour would have caused him to lose positions, fair enough - it wouldn't be an issue (as there would be no advantage gained). This clearly wasn't the case though.

Given that Kimi nor Fisi are neither a contender for the championship, it's not a huge issue. In fact, it's highly probable that Kimi would still have won the race. That however is not the point of the argument.

Inlight of consistency and credibility, enforcing the rules is important and in the interest of the sport. Applying subjective common-sense or ignoring the breaking of rules, isn't.

 

[Bludd]

I find the stewards to be quite consistent in ignoring the rule in the first few corners of a race when all the cars are bunched up.

 

[DJ12]

So it's official now, Force India have released Fisichella for the remainder of the season so he can drive for Ferrari.

While he will be further down the grid now , it's good that he gets his dream move. He's one of F1s nice guys so all the best to him.