Hamilton has received priority for new parts at McLaren this year.
Your bias is highly evident.
Formula 1 - 2009 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
Your bias is highly evident.
I find this very interesting. Care to point out why and how?
Kaotik said:
That is a very bold claim. It's not that I'm arguing against Alonso in this case - I very much respect the guy (more so than XXX obviously and I don't intend to argue that point) - but to say Hamiltons 2nd half performance had to to with him missing Alonsos 'glorious' setup is quite a lame attempt. For one, do you honestly believe the driver is the only one in the team that can carry out the fine tuning of his car? With enough feedback (and no doubt any racer with half a brain that got into F1 can give that), there are more than enough capable technicians at McLaren to execute the wishes. To think this is solely carried and attributed to the driver... is daft.
Yes, it is a factor - but not the factor you are making it out to be. Not by a long shot.
Looking at the qualifying times I posted is far more telling to their respective performances because they are constrained to a more or less empty track with little interference and and external influence.
If you decide to look at race results though, you have a whole bunch of influences that can change the picture. Team cock-ups, rookie mistakes etc. Hamilton fucking up his tyres? Sure, his fault. Hamilton hitting the pit-stop limiter in the last race? His fault. Does Alonsons missing set-up and fine tuning bear even the slightest relevancy to these in racing occuring events? No it doesn't. Had Hamilton not made even these most basic mistakes during these races, they would be far apart in points.
I find the argument that Alonso suffered from a team not backing him up towards the end of the season far more credible and believable. If anything, M. Schumacher demonstrated how important the entire team is (driver, team, car), when battling for the championship.
Only the new chassis adjustments, not all other parts, but then he did just win a race and was ahead in the chapionship so it makes perfect sense in that respect.
Raise the issue again if Heikki doesn't have exactly the same modifications at the next race.
So what if I am biased, you trying to imply your aren't?
I lol'ed.As usual, anyone having anything negative to say about Hamilton is hater
Seriously, it's not like I said Heikki or Kimi were rubbish so why chip in?
You and Bludd do have a very strong dislike for Hamilton, that much is clear from your posts.
"MUST.POST.ANYTHING.TO.DISCREDIT.HAMILTON"
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tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Nowhere near as good as Hamilton? I'm sorry but exactly what did hamilton do to show absolute greatness after 2.5 seasons? He had a good first season, though a great car and more preperation than any other rookie ever. The second year he had the fastest car and nearly screwed up again and this season again he showed just how good he is if Mclaren doesnt deliver him a fast car.
I disagree. I didnt like the guy, but he changed. Renault hasnt given him even a half decent car for the past 2 seasons but I think he had some good results that also were due to his driving. Atleast I think he manages to get more out of that Renault than most other drivers could.
Because they're mine
tongue: as said, I don't think he's a bad driver, just not the Senna/Schumacher league. Which is pretty evident looking at the results.
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So it is reasonable for Hamilton to receive new parts before Kovalainen because Hamilton is ahead in the standings while Alonso is being an evil team mate, demanding that Piquet have an inferior car despite the fact that Alonso was ahead in the standings while Piquet had a grand total of 0 points?
My bias is towards Alonso, sure, but I am not rubbishing Hamilton like you claim I am.
Regarding Heikki, I think he is a crap racer. He can qualify as well as anyone, but in the races, he rarely does well if he is pressured. Kimi is blindingly fast but pretty lazy. In a straight fight on pure speed, I think Kimi is the fastest on the grid. I think Hamilton is the best, most aggressive overtaker in the style of Senna: "I'm coming through whether you like it or not, yield or we will crash", but this makes him prone to over-driving. I think Hamilton have learnt from what happened the last few years in this respect, also I think he's learning to control himself and not do things like he did in Japan 2008. I think Alonso is the best at managing the entire race and the best all-rounder.
Yeah, great discussing with you ...Because they're mine
Different fuel loads, car has to be good with worn tyres etc etc, the best setup is perfect balance between one lap speed with fresh tyres and race durability+performance when tyres wear, fuel load goes from heavy to light to heavy to light etc.
This comparison isn't exactly valid, since it's more about the car than settings in this case, but gives you some idea hopefully on what I mean - look at Ferrari, in qualifying it ain't anything to write home about, but the race pace they've gotten it up to is quite a lot better.
While you got many valid points there, and I might have exaggarated the effect of having someone elses setup to use, Hamilton lack(ed) the experience Alonso had. Even though you can give input that this and that doesn't feel good, the experience they gain over the years on giving better input and knowing what affects what as a driver, makes a difference.
While the driver doesn't do the setup changes himself (excluding in-car changes on track like brake balance of course), he does have a big influence on the setup.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Because they're mine
tongue: as said, I don't think he's a bad driver, just not the Senna/Schumacher league. Which is pretty evident looking at the results.
I dont think you can compare. Senna (and Schumachers) time was different than now. These days its a lot harder to perform. They cant race nose to gearbox anymore like Senna could do, as soon as they get anywhere near the car infront performance already takes a big hit. So you need to be above godlike to not only make up for your cars slowness but have to go even faster to make up for the performance loss being close to someone. Obviously, this is impossible. We've already seen it a couple of times this year. Cars like the Brawn and Red Bull that atleast untill a couple of races ago had a real big advantage over cars like the Ferrari but still they had problems passing. I dont think at this stage its the lack of driver skill but just the fact that its so hard to follow someone close overtaking is next to impossible unless you are way faster which is only possible if you have a very very dominant car and has little to do with driver skill.
Unless the FIA finally gets their act together and stop wasting time and money and find a way to make overtaking easier and just decide that the best, fastest and easiest way to improve overtaking is by slamming on early 90's bodywork I dont think its totally far to compare Alonso to Senna. Its like comparing Fangio to Senna. It makes no sense, different times.
The team had time to modify one car, previously Kovalainen had upgrades before Hamilton so it's not that big a deal.
Alonso being evil as you put it is because that's what he wanted, Hamilton however has never asked to be treated better than Kovalainen. See the difference?
At least I am getting a bit of honest opinion from you now though, even though at the last minute you fall away slightly.
Are you trying to suggest it took Renault a full 7 races to make additional "spec A" parts to go on Piquet's car?
Piquet was given the shaft because Alonso demands to be the number one. Would Piquet have done better with the good parts that Alonso was getting? Not on your life because he's useless, the fact he never got the good parts (until he started making Briatori look like a prized prick) speaks volumes about Alonso's insecurities.
Good help him when he goes to Ferrari and Massa kicks his mardy arse every weekend.
Yeah, fine. You can go ahead with the Alonso bashing. McLaren and Renault both had to prioritise and they both made the same decision; their strongest driver.
I'm not a Hamilton hater, you are an Alonso hater.
Edit: Where did I fall away slightly? You are a piece of work, it is not possible to have a discussion with you because you chastise someone for being something that you clearly are.
Want me to say negative things about Alonso? Fine, he can appear short and negative in interviews. He sometimes doesn't grab every opportunity to overtake. He is sometimes too conservative.
Positive about Hamilton? He drives in a spectacular fashion, overtakes with aplomb and he's a good qualifier.
Let's hear you say something positive about Alonso. No, you can't because to you he is an insecure prick who bullies everyone and behaves unfairly. He has never done anything impressive. Him holding out against Schumacher at Imola 2005 was nothing because the track is impossible to overtake on and Schumacher is a crap driver, not aggressive at all, anyone can keep that jerk behind race after race.
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http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/77977
Looks like there should be an article on Autosport about the Mercedes KERS system soon; the link above provides a short preview. Basically the orange piece that we've seen on the McLaren before is the electonics control; there is a brown part that sits over the otherside which is actually be battery unit. Overall the Mercedes system is 25Kg.
Looks like there should be an article on Autosport about the Mercedes KERS system soon; the link above provides a short preview. Basically the orange piece that we've seen on the McLaren before is the electonics control; there is a brown part that sits over the otherside which is actually be battery unit. Overall the Mercedes system is 25Kg.
I find it incredible that the first versions they made were 100 kg. That's immense. How much of that was batteries alone? Wow.
Look How Bad You Are. Oh my. How cruel.
Same goes for you with your raving about Alonso, so...
Most of it, pretty sure.
I am trying to have a discussion, you are being dismissive and a prick. I like Alonso, you don't, fine but claiming that other people's opinions are irrelevant while your goddamn opinions are the gospel truth is infuriating and you need to stop it.
Maybe I'm arguing someone elses battle (who argues something different than I am), but I agree, Hamilton certainly wasn't as experienced as Alonso nor is he now (although he gained a lot of knowhow, experience and especially confidence since his entry). I also see no point to deny that Hamiton did benefit from his experienced world-champion team-mate when they started and throughout the season.
Being gifted a well set up and top of the grid car isn't (or shouldn't) be enough to challenge an experienced world champion as Alonso in his first season. That he effectively did challenge Alonso and from so early on, sais more positive to me about Hamiltons abilty than it does about him cheaply benefiting of someone elses experience. Sure, I'm sure know-how was shared - it should be - after all it is still a team, even if both of them are challenging the same title. The driver still has to convert that potential into results at the end of the day. That Hamilton managed exactly that, IMO is very impressive, especially considering his first year.
I don't doubt for a second though, that Alonso did struggle within the team and perhaps wanted more resources behind him than Hamilton. Hamilton being the british star in his home team with Alonso the outsider can't be easy. I can't blame him for that to be honest - with two world championships and being the way more expensive driver for the team, who wouldn't want the higher backing? I certainly can't blame McLaren for perhaps favouring Ham over Kov as well, or Ferrari Schumacher over Barri. Perhaps Alonso folded to the pressure - the british media going frenzy about Hamiltons performance and the fact that he as a two time champion did not set himself apart enough from his rookie team mate. To his bad luck, Hamilton was just that good. What were the odds?
I have to admit, I disliked Hamilton a lot in his first season (although much of that was attributed to the british media overhyping and some of the british folk I've encountered in forums that drove me nuts) and was pleased to see him come short of winning the championship. In fact, I was for Alonso.
I have become very impressed with Hamiltons driving ability though. One might argue there are better drivers outthere (and as package, I'm sure that's a valid point, though debatable as each driver comes with strengths and weaknesses) - but I think he stands out in his aggressive driving style and fearless racer attitude. That's probably his weakness at the same time, but I think at the same time his greatest potential along with the talent he obviously has. Among the current drivers, I rate him the highest, despite his experience deficit (which is probably by now minor enough to really matter).
Being gifted a well set up and top of the grid car isn't (or shouldn't) be enough to challenge an experienced world champion as Alonso in his first season. That he effectively did challenge Alonso and from so early on, sais more positive to me about Hamiltons abilty than it does about him cheaply benefiting of someone elses experience. Sure, I'm sure know-how was shared - it should be - after all it is still a team, even if both of them are challenging the same title. The driver still has to convert that potential into results at the end of the day. That Hamilton managed exactly that, IMO is very impressive, especially considering his first year.
I don't doubt for a second though, that Alonso did struggle within the team and perhaps wanted more resources behind him than Hamilton. Hamilton being the british star in his home team with Alonso the outsider can't be easy. I can't blame him for that to be honest - with two world championships and being the way more expensive driver for the team, who wouldn't want the higher backing? I certainly can't blame McLaren for perhaps favouring Ham over Kov as well, or Ferrari Schumacher over Barri. Perhaps Alonso folded to the pressure - the british media going frenzy about Hamiltons performance and the fact that he as a two time champion did not set himself apart enough from his rookie team mate. To his bad luck, Hamilton was just that good. What were the odds?
I have to admit, I disliked Hamilton a lot in his first season (although much of that was attributed to the british media overhyping and some of the british folk I've encountered in forums that drove me nuts) and was pleased to see him come short of winning the championship. In fact, I was for Alonso.
I have become very impressed with Hamiltons driving ability though. One might argue there are better drivers outthere (and as package, I'm sure that's a valid point, though debatable as each driver comes with strengths and weaknesses) - but I think he stands out in his aggressive driving style and fearless racer attitude. That's probably his weakness at the same time, but I think at the same time his greatest potential along with the talent he obviously has. Among the current drivers, I rate him the highest, despite his experience deficit (which is probably by now minor enough to really matter).
I explained where you fell away.
Anyway, I have not called you baised (you have me), I, like many others like Lewis Hamilton and also like many others I wish his dad would f*#k off.
I don't dislike Alonso, infact when he was fighting with Schumacher I was rooting for him to win, but he's is a complete and utter dickhead and I lost every last ounce of respect and admiration of him during his petty moaning season at Mclaren.
I can say positive things about Alonso, but to be perfectly frank the sycophantic love for him displayed in this thread makes that extremely unlikely as my time will be better spent discussing the things you would clearly like everyone to forget.
For the record, Hamilton is not my favourite driver and he never has been, Kimi is, even now when he's absolutely rubbish.
Who knows maybe now we've attempted to clear the situation up this can be avoided in the future.
Again: look at the results over the last few years, it speaks for itself.
As for him as a person, remember the stolen Ferrari CD and his tireless denial of any knowledge about that? That alone was enough to throw him out of the sport once and for all. IMO.
To be fair, that was more damage control. As a team (at least everyone who was in the loop) swor to deny it - after all, they were doing something for what the entire team could have been disqualified for - or at least those that knew. You can't expect Alonso do hand out his team. The right thing to do, would have been to come forward when I knew about it, but how would that have went down with his team? You don't bite the hand that is feeding you. Same goes for Hamilton at the time.
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