Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

[Rangers]

I guess you'd already need 50% more power to produce anything even remotely noticeable.

If you had 50% more RAM, 50% more clock in a PS3 or 360, it would be a huge difference vs the other. These are console that battle for 5%.

Or consider the uproar, if Sony disabled 200 MB of RAM (<50%) on the PS3 for some reason. Would that be "barely noticeable" too? We've fought this gen over a few MB's of RAM more that the PS3 OS takes than the X360. Or MS just rejiggered it's disk with a full update to gain 1GB more storage,

I read the report to mean under clocked, Wii U is barely more than PS360. If it was fully clocked, you would see 50%.

 

[sfried]

Forgive the noise of this video, but it seems even on the Japanese Garden tech demo, the system is still rendering two separate views at once:

This happens to be the most complete video of the entire demo I could find.

 

[pc999]

Silly question...

If someone made a WiiU cont only game how much shader/GPGPU power would they have avaiable? Some 5x more no?

Could we see some PS4/XB3 ports for the controller only (assuming CPU allows that) (I am assuming lower rez and textures would make up for the RAM)

Forgive the noise of this video, but it seems even on the Japanese Garden tech demo, the system is still rendering two separate views at once:

This happens to be the most complete video of the entire demo I could find.

Each time more impressive IMO.

BTW would the flowers growth, some of the water riples along side the snow deformation indicate some tessellation too? I liked those transformative stuff we saw in demos and that seems real geometry to my eyes.This is almost the only gfx thing I want out of it, but if not, it almost dont need with this showing anyway.

 

[Arwin]

Forgive the noise of this video, but it seems even on the Japanese Garden tech demo, the system is still rendering two separate views at once:

This happens to be the most complete video of the entire demo I could find.

Good find, thanks.

 

[liolio]

Well it seems like there is more and more hints about at leat another system launching in 2013.
It looks like we may deal with system worse 2TFLOPS backed by 8GB of RAM. If Nintendo can they should better ironing their system aim for around a TFLOPS for the GPUs and 2GB of RAM even if it means some noise early on and investing on a pretty performant cooliing system.

 

[Arwin]

I think Nintendo is aiming squarely at getting a system out with parity to or slightly above current-gen systems. They don't care about next-gen. This is just like the original Wii in that respect.

 

[liolio]

I think Nintendo is aiming squarely at getting a system out with parity to or slightly above current-gen systems. They don't care about next-gen. This is just like the original Wii in that respect.

So they don't care for core gamers? That's not consistent with their claim. There is something rotten in the Land of N.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

There is something rotten in the Land of N.

Isn't it a little early to make assumptions like that?
Arwin's prediction could be just wrong.



I for one am assuming, from Kotaku's news, that the "+50%" performance is achieved with the underclocked devkits.

+50% performance isn't enough to make a noticeable distinction from another system, specially if:

a) You're developing for a new system from ground-up, while the others have 5 years of optimization experience over it.
b) You're developing for Nintendo, which usually wants 60fps in all their games.
c) (still to be proved) You're aiming at rendering to a higher resolution.



I think all the demos we've seen were done with the underclocked systems (where they had to show the console in the kiosks). The aforementioned "City demo" that supposedly dropped some jaws was shown in a PC-like case with better cooling, with the final clocks.


That said, I really don't think the end result will be anything below a RV730 @ ~850MHz, or a RV740 @ 450MHz.

 

[Rodéric]

Re-using existing technology is going to cut Wii U's games costs, which is good for devs since it means more profits and less risks.

 

[stiftl]

That said, I really don't think the end result will be anything below a RV730 @ ~850MHz, or a RV740 @ 450MHz.

I am thinking of something similiar:

320-400 SP / 32 TU / 8 ROPs @729 MHz if they stay on 40nm
480-640 SP / 32TU / 16 ROPs @729 MHz if they will go with 28nm

For the processor I am thinking of 2,2GHz tri- or quadcore (3x the frequency of the GPU as with GC/Wii).

A big (?) for me is if they will go with 1T-SRAM again, absolutely no info/speculation/rumors about this If yes, how much would make sense? 16MB?

For big memory pool I think they will either stay at GDDR3@729 MHz or switch to GDDR5, we will see.

 

[Xenus]

Honestly if they are using as old of tech as it appears they are rumored the underclocked devkit rumor makes no sense. If they cannot get the parts as cool as they want at the moment they would just use bigger boxes and if the parts aren't quite ironed out they could just use equivalent PC parts. Something with that rumor doesn't add up unless Nintendo is deliberately hampering developers.

 

[wsippel]

Honestly if they are using as old of tech as it appears they are rumored the underclocked devkit rumor makes no sense. If they cannot get the parts as cool as they want at the moment they would just use bigger boxes and if the parts aren't quite ironed out they could just use equivalent PC parts. Something with that rumor doesn't add up unless Nintendo is deliberately hampering developers.

It's weird, yes. It would only make sense if it's not possibly to "emulate" the actual parts with off-the-shelf parts unless you overclock them well beyond stable levels. And that's also quite hard to believe. Or Nintendo simply uses cases for the devkits that don't provide proper cooling for off-the-shelf equivalents.

Things might become more clear soon though. According to Sega, new prototype development kits are expected by late July, and will supposedly give developers a better idea of what exactly the system can do.

 

[pc999]

It's weird, yes. It would only make sense if it's not possibly to "emulate" the actual parts with off-the-shelf parts unless you overclock them well beyond stable levels. And that's also quite hard to believe. Or Nintendo simply uses cases for the devkits that don't provide proper cooling for off-the-shelf equivalents.

Things might become more clear soon though. According to Sega, new prototype development kits are expected by late July, and will supposedly give developers a better idea of what exactly the system can do.

With all those different reports it almost look like devs know as much as we do


And even those dev kits will not be final...

To be honest it starts to make little sense they are using a custom 4x00 instead of a full custom chip or a custom chip that inst based in something much more recent like a 6x00.

Unless the CPU is the base of all these, but in this case they could talk more about the gfx capability's, no?

 

[ninzel]

Something that's been forgotten and could be hardware related.
In the original rumours the box size was supposed to be around the size of the original 360.
The other hardware rumours were pretty spot on in terms of what we know for sure.
For example the size of the controller was predicted to be 6.2 inches. This is a pretty specific prediction.
Now combine that with the fact that we are hearing these dev kits are under clocked and the specs aren't final plus NIntendo's almost complete deemphasizing of the box.
Is it too far out there to think that maybe the actual box will end being the original predicted size,while being the same shape and look. A box the size of the original 360 could bode well for more power than we are thinking.

 

[nintenho]

Something that's been forgotten and could be hardware related.
In the original rumours the box size was supposed to be around the size of the original 360.
The other hardware rumours were pretty spot on in terms of what we know for sure.
For example the size of the controller was predicted to be 6.2 inches. This is a pretty specific prediction.
Now combine that with the fact that we are hearing these dev kits are under clocked and the specs aren't final plus NIntendo's almost complete deemphasizing of the box.
Is it too far out there to think that maybe the actual box will end being the original predicted size,while being the same shape and look. A box the size of the original 360 could bode well for more power than we are thinking.

A 1/3 increase maybe from the original design would seem possible but doubling it to the size of the 360 slim seems farfetched.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-17-new-wii-u-hardware-for-devs-in-june-july

Apparently developers are supposed to get new WiiU prototypes in June/July so maybe we'll get more info on the WiiU's capabilities in the next few weeks.

 

[AlphaWolf]

maybe someone confused dimensions of the controller with those of the box

 

[patsu]

It begins...
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/17/real-racing-2-hd-wireless-dual-screen-gaming-with-ios-5-on-ipad/

(1) AirPlay/RemotePlay/Mirror iPad games on TV

(2) Pad controller (Game appears on TV, pad shows controller UI)

It's just one week after Nintendo unveiled dual-screen gaming on the Wii U at E3, but Apple's iOS 5 beta is already bringing a very similar experience to the living room -- many months before Nintendo's latest console is expected to ship. We installed iOS 5 on an iPad 2 and Apple TV, and took the latest version of Real Racing 2 HD for a test-drive, which enables dual-screen gameplay over AirPlay without the need for Apple's $39 AV adapter. Other games, like Angry Birds, simply mirror the iPad's display (and aspect ratio) on your HDTV, but Real Racing streams 16:9 HD video.

For this game (and we imagine many more to come), you use the iPad as the controller -- both while navigating through menus and in race mode -- while the game appears only on your TV (though the tablet does display some vitals, and a map of the track). There's noticeable lag between the iPad and Apple TV when using AirPlay, which may be an issue for games where timing is important, such as Rock Band, but didn't seem to set us back while playing Firemint's racing game.

 

[stiftl]

I am thinking of something similiar:

320-400 SP / 32 TU / 8 ROPs @729 MHz if they stay on 40nm
480-640 SP / 32TU / 16 ROPs @729 MHz if they will go with 28nm

For the processor I am thinking of 2,2GHz tri- or quadcore (3x the frequency of the GPU as with GC/Wii).

A big (?) for me is if they will go with 1T-SRAM again, absolutely no info/speculation/rumors about this If yes, how much would make sense? 16MB?

For big memory pool I think they will either stay at GDDR3@729 MHz or switch to GDDR5, we will see.

Another guess:

480 SP / 32 TU / 16 ROPs @600 MHz => 580 GFLOPS
So basically specs of e6760 but unsure of the architecture. If it would use the RV7xx (DX10.1) architecture I think this could end @20W.

1,8GHz tri-core or quadcore Power7 derivate
How would such a CPU compare with Xenon and Cell? Clock is much lower, but IIRC Power7 can do 4 threads/clock and the low clock would much better fit the small power budget. Devs would need to do a lot of multithreading but this would fit Sega's "it's different" comment.

Still unsure about the RAM, would 1200 MHz GDDR5 be realistic?

 

[RudeCurve]

It begins...
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/17/real-racing-2-hd-wireless-dual-screen-gaming-with-ios-5-on-ipad/

(1) AirPlay/RemotePlay/Mirror iPad games on TV

(2) Pad controller (Game appears on TV, pad shows controller UI)

Looks like Apple is going to kill Nintendo's WiiU even before it is released. Imagine iPad3 or even iPhone5 with controller attachments.:smile:

 

[fehu]

Looks like Apple is going to kill Nintendo's WiiU even before it is released. Imagine iPad3 or even iPhone5 with controller attachments.:smile:

imagine a console that cost as an iphone5 on contract alone