Eyetoy PS3 MIA?

[mckmas8808]

Remember this is future ideas. Some of this stuff never will see the light of day. But they are already doing some of the things in that video now.

Is one of those things that they are doing now the Minority Report (ie moving items across the screen with you hands) thing? If so my head would explode.

 

[me2]

Is one of those things that they are doing now the Minority Report (ie moving items across the screen with you hands) thing? If so my head would explode.

The dash board Ui is what was demonstrated to our group.

 

[mckmas8808]

The dash board Ui is what was demonstrated to our group.

Wow that's neat. Did they let you guys use it too? If so did it feel ackward at first? Did you get use to it?

I hope Sony can find a way to give us the option for that dashboard in a firmware update. I would buy an eyetoy just for the Minority Report XMB dashboard.

 

[me2]

Wow that's neat. Did they let you guys use it too? If so did it feel ackward at first? Did you get use to it?

I hope Sony can find a way to give us the option for that dashboard in a firmware update. I would buy an eyetoy just for the Minority Report XMB dashboard.

No we were not allowed to test the device or Ui probably because its very early work and companies dont like hard locks when performing demonstrations. Like i said before, this was a demonstration of how developers can use the eyetoy Hd device not an actual application that may see consumer units.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

News from ThreeSpeech :

* The Sony PR man said that a new HD camera and mic. with spatial awareness will be coming later in the year. Also downloaded PS1 games playable on the PS3 will happen- but later this year.

 

[mckmas8808]

News from ThreeSpeech :

Shifty what does spatial awareness mean?

 

[StefanS]

Shifty what does spatial awareness mean?

means it can detect spacial depth along z-axis instead of just motion in x-y plane like a normal camera. Probably based on the IR camera demo they once showcased at E3.

 

[Crossbar]

means it can detect spacial depth along z-axis instead of just motion in x-y plane like a normal camera. Probably based on the IR camera demo they once showcased at E3.

What kind of resolution(X*Y) could you expect from an IR camera and at what frame rate?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The IR part is likely limited (SD res perhaps), but works in conjunction with the high-res 2D camera. Even then, an HD camera is something pretty amazing, if it manages high framerates (30 fps) in HD. There aren't any cameras that do that. Existing HD cameras have low framerate HD captures, or high framerate at SDTV res.

If they manage that, they could have HD camera capture for 2D, with a quarter-res IR captured Z-buffer, X and Y collisions could be very accurate, with depth very useable. TBH I've no idea how the IR depth system works!

 

[Crossbar]

Does anyone know how a an IR-based depth system works, is it a single IR-pulse that is pulsed and a lense that focus the reflected IR-light onto an IR-sensitive matrix?

I did some work with an IR sensor years ago, but that was some primitive mil. speced stuff used solely for night vision, we used a laser to measure the distance and I think we can rule out that option for Sony.

Have anyone heard any news about Prime-Sense?

I find it intriguing that their site has two languages: English and Japanese.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Does anyone know how a an IR-based depth system works, is it a single IR-pulse that is pulsed and a lense that focus the reflected IR-light onto an IR-sensitive matrix?

Just Googled up a couple of answers

Article on 3D capture tech...
http://www.3dcgi.com/cooltech/cameras/cameras.htm

Relevant linked to companies...
http://www.canesta.com/html/electronic_perception_technology.htm

Fundamentally, the chips work in a manner similar to radar, where the distance to remote objects is calculated by measuring the time it takes an electronic burst of radio waves to make the round trip from a transmitting antenna to a reflective object (like a metal airplane) and back. In the case of these chips, however, a burst of unobtrusive light is transmitted instead.
The chips, which are not fooled by ambient light, either then time the duration it takes the pulse to reflect back to each pixel, using high speed, on-chip timers in one method, or simply count the number of returning photons, an indirect measure of the distance, in another.
In either case, the result is an array of "distances" that provides a mathematically accurate, dynamic "relief" map of the surfaces being imaged. The image and distance information is then handed off to an on-chip processor running Canesta's proprietary imaging software that further refines the 3-D representation before sending it off chip to the OEM application.

http://www.swissranger.ch/

The SwissRanger 3D camera can be implemented for short range measurements (< 1m) and high frame rates (e.g. machine vision) or for distance ranges of a few meters with close to real time frame rates (e.g. surveillance, robot navigation).

The SwissRanger 3D camera SR-3000 is based on a highly sensitive, custom-made CMOS/CCD image sensor consisting of 176x144 pixels. The time-of-flight (TOF) of the emitted light wave is measured in the near-infrared spectra.
The interface from the 3D camera to a computer is via a USB2.0 connection. The 3D camera directly delivers the 3D data of the environment without requiring any data processing on the PC.

Both appear to use the same method, timing the interval of a ray from source to surface to camera like RADAR. Both also claim low-cost. Neither does this with RGB colour, so a dual CCD system would need to be implemented.

 

[Crossbar]

Both appear to use the same method, timing the interval of a ray from source to surface to camera like RADAR. Both also claim low-cost. Neither does this with RGB colour, so a dual CCD system would need to be implemented.[/COLOR]

Thanks! Very interesting read. I think "low cost" in that field, is not the same as within the console world.

... only companies with large budgets have been able to afford them. Minolta tried to change this by offering, a $5000 3D camera ...

Considering that the current Eyetoy is a single chip solution with just a lense added, Sony is probably opting for the cheapest possible hardware solution. I wonder if an IR camera solution is that, even if it is really stream-lined it will require a IR-transmitter and likely a dual CCd as you say.

The Prime-Sense solution could probably be cheaper to manufacture, if the royalty is adequate that may be a better option for Sony.

 

[Rainbow Man]

Neither does this with RGB colour, so a dual CCD system would need to be implemented.[/COLOR]

Considering my quite ordinary webcam sees my TV/360/etc remotes just fine why couldn't a single CCD do this on its own?

Surely it can't be impossible to filter out the IR pulses somehow from the image..
Peace.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Thanks! Very interesting read. I think "low cost" in that field, is not the same as within the console world.

Ithink that was an early stereoscopic solution. Certainly it was an IR 'radar' solution, which could be very cheap depending on what tech is needed - A CCD, IR emitter and timing device. Plus the Minolta version will sell at the appropriate price-tag for a professional device!

Whatever system, Sony feel they have it at a consumer pricepoint. Or they're going to charge $150 for a webcam

 

[Crossbar]

Ithink that was an early stereoscopic solution. Certainly it was an IR 'radar' solution, which could be very cheap depending on what tech is needed - A CCD, IR emitter and timing device. Plus the Minolta version will sell at the appropriate price-tag for a professional device!

Whatever system, Sony feel they have it at a consumer pricepoint. Or they're going to charge $150 for a webcam

If they are serious about building new gaming IP around it, I think they will go for a low price point to build volumes fast, probably bundle it with a showcase game (like Wii Sports) and charge slightly more than what a normal game cost.

 

[patsu]

Yeah... but I want them to experiment with EyeToy non-games too. It's one of the few things that can cross over to the non-game world.

The Toshiba Magic Mirror sounds like a good idea. I would love it if one day, my wife decided to sit down in front of a PS3 without me.

 

[camhostage]

Have anyone heard any news about Prime-Sense?

I find it intriguing that their site has two languages: English and Japanese.

Interesting, this sounds pretty powerful. An interesting bit from the feature list, says it can key out background from the user simply by identifying distance and assigning that to pixels (you can either simplify the image for streaming or put a BG in.)

BTW, I wonder if maybe Sony stopped talk of EyeToy HD/IP because of worry over stuff like this being patented? I'm sure they have as many bases covered as they can, but they wouldn't want another Immersion in their lawyer's office. The next-gen EyeToy was such a hot topic, and then... silence. Then again, maybe it's just how they said in that one IGN article, that they were holding off on talking about the new EyeToy until after launch because of all the games to focus on and also that you can use a PS2 EyeToy or webcam and so they didn't need to do a new EyeToy until they had something special?

 

[Arwin]

BTW, I wonder if maybe Sony stopped talk of EyeToy HD/IP because of worry over stuff like this being patented? I'm sure they have as many bases covered as they can, but they wouldn't want another Immersion in their lawyer's office. The next-gen EyeToy was such a hot topic, and then... silence. Then again, maybe it's just how they said in that one IGN article, that they were holding off on talking about the new EyeToy until after launch because of all the games to focus on and also that you can use a PS2 EyeToy or webcam and so they didn't need to do a new EyeToy until they had something special?

Well, the way they have been dealing with Home certainly puts credit to the 'we're keeping quiet until we no longer can to keep our competition in the dark as long as possible'-theory.

 

[archangelmorph]

Well, the way they have been dealing with Home certainly puts credit to the 'we're keeping quiet until we no longer can to keep our competition in the dark as long as possible'-theory.

Or at least the "we're keeping quiet until we have a product and software in the form of a demo/tools/sample apps which can showcase what's possible with it.." - theory..:smile:

 

[Arwin]

Or at least the "we're keeping quiet until we have a product and software in the form of a demo/tools/sample apps which can showcase what's possible with it.." - theory..:smile:

Well in the case of Home, we not only had the GDC as a natural point in which to announce it, but the month after the announcements the betas already start (April) after which it would have been impossible to keep Home a secret.