Eidos: Bye bye GC, you won't be missed

[Grall]

The lot of you who will defend Nintendo through thick and thin always have new excuses when this kind of stuff happens.

Bla bla bla. The anti-Nintendo mob always drones the same tune, at least WE have NEW excuses.

Cry me a river over Eidos leaving will ya, they're a two-bit software house that haven't impressed me in like forever. Nor very many others either.

If Eidos had been like an IMPORTANT pillar of the GC software tower, then it would have mattered but they haven't released anything I want to play.


*G*

 

[Blade]

Yeah, the anti-Nintendo mob is a bunch of God damn jackasses. Always trying to rationalize by saying "GAMECUBE DOESNT TEH SELL GET USE D TO IT~!!!!!!~!!@@" when sometimes they're right.. but many times the answer is something radically different. Many PS2/Xbox 3rd-parties haven't even given GCN a chance, like Eidos. Where the f**k was Hitman 2 on GCN in 2002, for example?

If you're going to go close to completely ignoring a user-base, don't expect sales. If GCN got all of the "PS2 and Xbox only" games, the latest of those being GTA3/VC.. sales would be up and Nintendo would have a more well-rounded lineup.

Blame Nintendo for creating doubts with the N64 and their solid but misunderstood family-oriented philosophy.. and then blame 3rd-parties for somewhat ignoring the no.2 selling console worldwide. At least Sega gave it a chance with their Sega Sports line before pulling it.. too bad Rockstar Games couldn't give them a few high-profile games before giving up..

 

[oli2]

... At least Sega gave it a chance with their Sega Sports line before pulling it.. too bad Rockstar Games couldn't give them a few high-profile games before giving up..

Not quite sure Sega is a good example ... because i'm not sure they have to complain about the sales of SMB 1&2, Sonic 1&2, PSO 1, 2, 3, their other RPG i don't remember the name on GCN when you compare to PDO, PSO, and other games i don't remember too on Xbox.

Clear, if you exclude sports games that done not so bad on Xbox (see the numbers for EA's sports games sales ...) and bad on GCN (in US only, i remember you !), i think that Sega can be more happy about its presence on GCN than on Xbox ...

PS : on another topic, i saw the global numbers for Sega that show clearly what i mean ... Would someone give them again, please ?

 

[Blade]

Oli: Well, I said Sega Sports for a reason. Their sports games sell/sold the worst on the 'Cube.

Their other games have sold well, especially their Sonic games.

 

[oli2]

Oli: Well, I said Sega Sports for a reason. Their sports games sell/sold the worst on the 'Cube.

Their other games have sold well, especially their Sonic games.

No misunderstanding ... i agree with what you said about their sports games but i just wanted to precise for those who are not aware that they can be more satisfied by the sales of other type of games on GCN than on Xbox (the numbers i talked about showed that clearly).

 

[Blade]

Yeah, you're right. Very true.

While Sega has released some good/great games on the 'Box, they're sold a surprisingly small amount of copies.

They actually had to pack JSRF and Sega GT in with the Xbox to move them, despite their quality.

 

[oli2]

If you want my true feeling, i think Sega did not get the sales their work deserved both on GCN and Xbox !

I don't know/remember the numbers on PS2 but if it is better, it's a shame, because their line-up on the other two was far more good !

 

[Goldni]

Death, I love my XB but man oh man I do joke over at N forums but really besides Halo there is like 4 games that are truly AAA games worth owning imo.

Qroach, I'm sure the company you work for and Eidos will be bankrupt and well forgotten before Nintendo even comes *close* to closing up shop. So dont get giddy just because another talentless dilapitating publisher wants to jab at Ninty. Just because you are in the industry, that does not 'not' make you the obvious fanboy that you are. Ergo it does'nt mean you have a "more realistic picture" of the industry than ppl like me who are just now entering into it and have followed it for a long time. There are alot of ppl in the industry that NEED to get out. They dont know sh!t (ie McGarvey running his company into the ground). While my career in the 'game bidness' is just beginning (2 months old now) I have quickly learned there are people who act like scorned ex wives against others in the industry. And yes politics and good ole boys abound.

The conditions at Eidos really must be like a funeral the past year or so. I understand they are frustrated at thier games not doing well. They had high hopes for Tomb Raider AoD. They've shot themselves one too many times. But why make a big press release about "pulling GCN support"? Why take a last jab at Nintendo? A company you hardly supported anyway. He said "we've never invested heavily in Nintendo". WTF? So now that your company has only a pot to piss in because of stupid mistakes and poor quality games you blame Ninty?! I really see Mr. McGarvey as a unhappy exec that is trying to divert some attention. What he really meant to say is this, " We are damn near broke. It appears that we may be on the way up after hitting hear bottom. So we are cutting our losses and can really only afford to develop for two systems. Besides one good game (TS2) we barely supported the GCN anyhow, thus the fanbase does'nt really know us, respect us nor follow us. The few games we did release on GCN were 6 month to 1 year old crappy ports most of the time and hence we've really screwed up with the GCN audience. We are now going to focus on bringing quality games like *cough* Tomb Raider AoD *cough* to the masses of sheep out there who are still not informed that we've made some really bad games. Thanks and sorry Nintendo fan for treating you like a red headed street whore. It was our fault not yours. Thank you M. McGarvey."

And anti Nintendo fanboy says.. "Uh oh, all those amazing GC titles Eidos have planned won't be released now." Nintendo fanboy says "wtf? Eidos who?"

That's ok. Nintendo will do what Iwata has sat out to do (and doing it well ima), that's continue to make strong relations with the 3rd parties that really matter. The ones who care. The ones who are talented. The ones who will make exclusives for GCN and the ones who at least will make sure thier cross platform games all release together and the GCN version is as good as or better. Just leave those who shoot themselves one too many times to suffer and die from thier self inflicted wounds. And in thier last gasp of air they launch one more hurtful bellicose jab at the very entity that did them the least harm.

 

[Paul]

The lot of you who will defend Nintendo through thick and thin always have new excuses when this kind of stuff happens.

According to some, Cube is in second place world wide. Contrary to popular belief; Nintendo isn't going anywhere anytime soon. A loss such as Eidos is nothing, they haven't made anything good in recent times.

Anyone remember fighting force?

 

[Goldni]

Hey guys here is some Sega numbers for ya. They are a little old from Jan. But it shows that even with the Sega sports sales that the avg units sold per system is pretty good for Sega on GCN.

Sega Sales Per System thru Jan 03.

PS2 VIRTUA FIGHTER 4 522,327
PS2 NBA 2K2 435,762
PS2 NFL 2K3 383,979
PS2 NFL 2K2 350,341
PS2 NBA 2K3 304,414
PS2 SHINOBI 188,219
PS2 NCAA FOOTBALL 2K3 106,027 2,565,571 - 15 = 171,038 avg
PS2 TENNIS 2K2 69,141
PS2 NHL 2K3 60,236
PS2 NCAA BASKETBALL 2K3 57,904
PS2 BASS FISHING DUEL 25,828
PS2 GUNGRAVE 24,157
PS2 REZ 16,981
PS2 FERRARI F355 CHLLNG 12,382
PS2 SOCCER SLAM 7,873
-------------------------------------------



XBX NFL 2K3 191,856
XBX NBA 2K3 138,659
XBX WORLD SERIES BASEBALL 110,794
XBX NBA 2K2 101,230
XBX NFL 2K2 85,922
XBX CRAZY TAXI 3 74,574 1,155,451 -15 = 77,030 avg
XBX GUNVALKYRIE 65,681
XBX HOUSE OF THE DEAD III 62,073
XBX SEGA GT 2002 61,957
XBX PANZER DRAGOON ORTA 59,076
XBX NCAA FOOTBALL 2K3 54,662
XBX NCAA BASKETBALL 2K3 48,831
XBX TOEJAM & EARL III 47,931
XBX NHL 2K3 41,639
XBX SOCCER SLAM 9,980


---------------------------------------------------


GCN SONIC ADVENTURE 2 562,942
GCN SUPER MONKEY BALL 271,344
GCN SONIC MEGA COLLECTION 193,802
GCN SUPER MONKEY BALL 2 185,616
GCN PHANTASY STAR I & II 100,316
GCN NBA 2K2 65,924
GCN NFL 2K3 44,878
GCN HOME RUN KING 37,289
GCN BEACH SPIKERS 35,460 1,597,837 - 16 = 99,864 avg
GCN SOCCER SLAM 35,146
GCN NBA 2K3 26,218
GCN SKIES OF ARCADIA LGND 19,693
GCN NCAA FOOTBALL 2K3 10,665
GCN VIRTUA STRIKER 5,595
GCN NHL 2K3 4,761
GCN NCAA BASKETBALL 2K3 4,188



BTW, someone over at GA showed updated numbers and the GCN was at like 114,000 avg and the XB avg went down.

 

[cybamerc]

As I've said on another board losing support is never good but realistically Eidos never offered much support to begin with. I think people need to realize that at this point the various platforms' place in the market has pretty much been set and Eidos isn't the kind of publisher that's likely to make a difference anyway.

 

[Qroach]

You guys keep citing all of sega's sales as an example. Sega only said they were not supporting gamecube with sports titles due to poor sales. Next, MS paid money to sega a lot of money for a number of exclusive titles. MS has given sega loans in the past as well... since sega recieved money up front for non sports titles the amount they need to seel isn't very high.

Also to those of you that say number 2 world wide for gamecube, when are you going ot listen that Japan doesn't mean ANYTHING to any publishers out side of that region? That's the only region that any title that's not made there, no matter how good it is still won't sell.

To Goldni with his nonsese about edios and companies I work for going out of business, sorry dude. This has nothing to do with the state of these companies. If that explains why they aren't supporting (or are dropping support) gamecube, then please explain why rockstar hasn't bothered to release GTA 3 or many other titles on gamecube? Does that mean they suck and they are going out of business? Or does that mean the demographics are wrong for a mature rated game? Or does this mean they don't expect the sales to be worthy of completing a port?

 

[cybamerc]

Sega Sports could have done better on Cube if Sega wasn't run by Tetsu Kayama at the time. He's out now and you can see Sega's priorities changing.

 

[Qroach]

Wait a second... what makes you think that who is running the company is why sega sports did bad on the gamecube? what does that have to do with the competition from EA (who also complained about sales and nearly dropped support for gamecube before working out a "deal" with nintendo")?

Do you really think that changing one person at sega can change the fact nintendo fans aren't typically big sports game buyers? EA isn't really selling a whiole lot of game on gamecube either, even still much less than xbox...

 

[cybamerc]

Qroach:

> then please explain why rockstar hasn't bothered to release GTA 3 or
> many other titles on gamecube?

Bias. Take 2's Nintendo support has traditionally been weak. Even before they got lucky with GTA3 they weren't interested in doing business with Nintendo.

 

[Qroach]

Bias.

Ok for one thing there' no bias going on. Sales mean money and that's what drives the decision.

Take 2's Nintendo support has traditionally been weak.

You're right, however this isn't take 2's decision. Rockstar is a company that runs itself seperate from take 2... I'm sure you meant rockstar anyway.

Even before they got lucky with GTA3 they weren't interested in doing business with Nintendo.

true, but why is that? have yo unoticed the mature theme to almost all of rockstars titles? Demographics of the targetted system plays a HUGE role in determining support for a platform. You can come up with more "bias" excuses, but the reality is that between you adn them, they aren't the one that is biased...

 

[cybamerc]

Qroach:

> what makes you think that who is running the company is why sega
> sports did bad on the gamecube?

Tetsu Kayama was the one who was made the deal with Bill Gates about Xbox support. A deal that saw Xbox receiving more support than PS2 and GameCube initially (yet sales ended up being much lower). As for Sega Sports specifically the deal resulted in Xbox receiving every Sega Sports title including an exclusive baseball game. GameCube OTOH missed out on the big one, NFL 2K2. That kind of prioritizing sends a clear signal (along with Kayama's stupid comments) and while the individual titles didn't do too bad on the GameCube the first year sales were significantly down the second year. Factor in userbase and Xbox is Sega Sports' strongest platform today.

> Do you really think that changing one person at sega can change the
> fact nintendo fans aren't typically big sports game buyers?

The kind of support you offer helps determine what kind of audience you attract. Sega sent a clear signal that GameCube wasn't the platform to buy if you wanted to play their sports titles and as a result consumers went to Xbox and PS2.

> EA isn't really selling a whiole lot of game on gamecube either, even
> still much less than xbox...

EA isn't doing too poorly on GameCube but again it's a matter of priority. GameCube was clearly prioritized below PS2 and Xbox initially and sales reflect that.

 

[Grall]

have yo unoticed the mature theme to almost all of rockstars titles? Demographics of the targetted system plays a HUGE role in determining support for a platform. You can come up with more "bias" excuses, but the reality is that between you adn them, they aren't the one that is biased...

Quinc, you make very little, bordering on zero sense. You argue in circles saying there's first no bias to begin with (because game makers are in it for the cash), and if there is, it's Nintendo's fault because GC's a kiddie console and it's THEIR bias to begin with (towards a younger crowd, by reading between the lines), apparantly overlooking the fact a console's only as biased as the games you release for it, and that you won't make any money from a console if you don't release any games for it, hence completing the circle. Good job dude.

Like Nintendo would ever deny Take2 the right to release GTA3 on the GC because Ninty wants to keep their kiddy image intact, who're you kidding here really?

Your argument seems strained to the point of breaking here. Everything you said so far doesn't change the fact Eido's a POS publisher that's been on the decline for years, bleeding cash in huge amounts. Who would EVER miss them if they went out of business tomorrow, tell me!

Oh, other than their employees I mean, whose supply of paychecks would dry out.


*G*

 

[Qroach]

As for Sega Sports specifically the deal resulted in Xbox receiving every Sega Sports title including an exclusive baseball game.

Actually the deal didn't include a baseball title. sega released tha ttitle on xbox becuase there were AERO competing baseball title on the system while on PS2 there were many to compete with. They also released it at the wrong time in the baseball season, so it wouldn't make sense to botheron the PS2. It just didn't make sense to release it at all on the gamecube at the time since sports titles don't sell well on that system.

GameCube OTOH missed out on the big one, NFL 2K2. That kind of prioritizing sends a clear signal (along with Kayama's stupid comments) and while the individual titles didn't do too bad on the GameCube the first year sales were significantly down the second year. Factor in userbase and Xbox is Sega Sports' strongest platform today.

One football game release isn't what caused the rest of the sports titles to sell poorly on gamecube. Like i sadi before, for the amount of user base, between xbox and GC, there's NO reason for the titles to sell half as much or even lower on gamecube. Look at first year title s like NHL2k3 on gamecube and then on xbox. On gamecube it only sold less than 5,000 units. that doesn't even cover the cost to print the boxes and disks for that system. it's even less than the mimimum order your're required to purchase/produce in a print run on gamecube.

The kind of support you offer helps determine what kind of audience you attract. Sega sent a clear signal that GameCube wasn't the platform to buy if you wanted to play their sports titles and as a result consumers went to Xbox and PS2.

That's one sports game man. Well then how do you explain the next year when they supported the system with all thier sports games and theySTILL did extremly poor? Btw, you've got the reasoning on this completly backwards, the kind of audience you attract determines your support. If gamecube didn't attract much of a sports game audience, then sports game sales will be low (and this include EA as well.)

EA isn't doing too poorly on GameCube but again it's a matter of priority. GameCube was clearly prioritized below PS2 and Xbox initially and sales reflect that.

Out of the gate EA supported both platforms the same roughly. At the same time, I think EA has a much greater grasp on console system demographics and when your audience isn't the right one for your titlle you can't expect the same as sales a system tha thas the audience you want. that's why it's prioritized lower then other consoles.

MS realized that they have to have sports titles to attract those games, which in turn attracts more sports game competition.

 

[cybamerc]

Qroach:

> Ok for one thing there' no bias going on.

Of course there is. There is no such thing as an objective decision. When deciding on a corporate strategy that doesn't mean every game seeing a release on every platform you're exercising bias. It can be wellfounded bias but nevertheless it's still bias.

> Sales mean money and that's what drives the decision.

Absolutely, but you never know how much a game is going to sell until it is released. As such decisions on where to put a game are based on preference and someone's opinion on where it's gonna sell the best - in other words, bias.

> You're right, however this isn't take 2's decision.

Of course it is.

> Rockstar is a company that runs itself seperate from take 2

Rockstar is a wholly owned subsidiary of Take 2. It just follows the company line.

> I'm sure you meant rockstar anyway.

Not at all. Take 2's bias against Nintendo goes back much longer.