Digital Foundry Retro Discussion [2016 - 2017]

[Cyan]

not DF Retro article today but I am wondering how to get the original Doom 3 -which I got on the Xbox-, not the Doom 3 BFG Edition which I have on the X360 and PC (GoG).

I want to play the Doom Reborn mod, which is awesome. It is the original Doom 1 and Doom 2 maps, the ones I know the most and played countless times (especially Doom 1), running on the Doom 3 engine, but I tried it and it is not compatible with the BFG Edition .

http://www.doomwadstation.net/doom3tc/reborn/

http://www.moddb.com/mods/doomreborn

Doom 1 E1M1.

Doom 2 Map 01

Doom 2 Map 02

 

[Cyan]

finally got the original Doom 3 on steam. The mod works flawlessly and can be set to 1080p or 4k via console. It's almost the same game as Doom 1 or Doom 2, although weapons are reset after each level so you start with basic ammo every level, not a big deal though. The secrets are the same, and the music is remastered mp3 or the like, not MIDI

 

[Davros]

although weapons are reset after each level

Press Ctrl+Alt+~(Tilde) to bring up the command console in a single player game:

give all - All weapons with full ammo, health and armor
give weapon_bfg
give weapon_chaingun
give weapon_chainsaw
give weapon_rocketlauncher
give weapon_machinegun
give weapon_plasmagun
give weapon_shotgun

 

[Cyan]

Press Ctrl+Alt+~(Tilde) to bring up the command console in a single player game:

give all - All weapons with full ammo, health and armor
give weapon_bfg
give weapon_chaingun
give weapon_chainsaw
give weapon_rocketlauncher
give weapon_machinegun
give weapon_plasmagun
give weapon_shotgun

thanks Davros! That's good to know! In fact it was pretty easy to use the console because I had to enable 1080p by bringing it up. I haven't tried Doom 2 but I've played Doom 1 using this mod and with the saves executable -to use quick saves and keep your progress- the weapons carry over each level.

The levels are so accurate it is pretty impressive. Even secret areas are the same! They don't get registered yet as secret areas discovered but the game is a sight to behold at 1080p 60 fps and it is Doom 1 all over. Highly recommendable, I got to level 3 of Doom 1.

Plus difficulty and level selection is the same as Quake. In Doom 1 for instance you choose Hurt me Plenty difficulty level by crossing the corresponding door, and then you cross the door of the episode of your choice.

 

[Cyan]

The recreation and level of fidelity compared to the original in this Doom version is amazing. It's just the same game, only in true 3D and 60 fps. However, they added some extras. For instance, in E1M2, where there is a secret area which has a chainsaw waiting for you on top of a pedestal, there is an extra switch the modders added and you go into a frenzy battle resembling Doom 1 more than Doom 3 -which usually had very little amount of enemies on screen-.

The battle takes place in an area which was impossible to get access to in the original Doom 1, and it is quite hellish in Ultra Violence difficulty level, my favourite in the original Doom. But you can get the plasma gun.

 

[Cyan]

new DF article! Doom - all console adaptations tested! There is an interesting question raised just at the end of the article.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-every-doom-console-port-tested-and-analysed

 

[Cyan]

aside from N64 version and the emulated version of Doom for SNES, all I played was the PC version back in the day, and I don't remember ever seeing those seams. You can clearly see that the skybox looks like the wall, it is just very ugly.

 

[Karamazov]

 

[MrSpiggott]

aside from N64 version and the emulated version of Doom for SNES, all I played was the PC version back in the day, and I don't remember ever seeing those seams. You can clearly see that the skybox looks like the wall, it is just very ugly.

Those are meant to be glass walls, the comparison shots are there to show the different approaches to transparency.
The skybox is just a regular skybox and in outside areas looks the same as the PC version.

 

[Cyan]

Those are meant to be glass walls, the comparison shots are there to show the different approaches to transparency.
The skybox is just a regular skybox and in outside areas looks the same as the PC version.

that sounds about right, technically speaking. But in practical terms.., does it look good to you? I thought it was a wall painting at first, but then you know Doom skies. Despite of the fact that it looks so shabby, the Saturn version looks more even to me. The issue I have with that PS1 picture is that I look at the sky and it seems to be part of the glass, as if it wasn't behind it, like it takes the shape of the glass

 

[MrSpiggott]

that sounds about right, technically speaking. But in practical terms.., does it look good to you? I thought it was a wall painting at first, but then you know Doom skies. Despite of the fact that it looks so shabby, the Saturn version looks more even to me. The issue I have with that PS1 picture is that I look at the sky and it seems to be part of the glass, as if it wasn't behind it, like it takes the shape of the glass

Unfortunately we're seeing a still image which seems to be producing an optical illusion.
When in motion it's obviously just two transparent textures that are applying a colour tint to the skybox and looks fine. There's a clip of it in the video during the PS1 version review.

 

[Nesh]

aside from N64 version and the emulated version of Doom for SNES, all I played was the PC version back in the day, and I don't remember ever seeing those seams. You can clearly see that the skybox looks like the wall, it is just very ugly.

There skybox doesnt look like a wall. There is a transparent glass where the wall should be. The skybox looked normal outside

edit:never mind. Already responded

 

[Cyan]

Unfortunately we're seeing a still image which seems to be producing an optical illusion.
When in motion it's obviously just two transparent textures that are applying a colour tint to the skybox and looks fine. There's a clip of it in the video during the PS1 version review.

well, it does look better in motion, that and the animated skies, although there are like "seams" even in motion, it doesn't look at one of those 3d games of the late 90s with transparent window panes to me, which seemed to be realistically detached from the skyboxes and the background. The transparencias seem to be on top of the panes, so to speak.

Maybe it is caused by the limitations of the PS1 hardware? Hardware limitations defined the history of videogames forever and in a sense they made what videogames are today. Mario for instance was created with a moustache and a cap and blue and red clothes because of hardware limitations, but that made it unique.

http://www.gamingsymmetry.com/the-top-10-creative-decisions-made-due-to-technical-limitations/

http://www.dorkly.com/post/60407/graphical-limitations-that-helped-define-awesome-characters

however in the case of Doom PS1 I get this odd feeling of something missing, especially from still photos.

 

[Sonic]

The Saturn version of Doom was essentially the PS1 version with massive downgrades. The picture posted of the transparencies is a good example of Saturn having to resort to using its gimped checkerboard effect. The colored lighting in the PS1 version also puts the Saturn's version to shame. The frame rate of the Saturn version was also abysmal and the Japanese version was barely, if at all, any better.

I do recall the guy developing the Saturn version was going to use the hardware to render but Carmack nipped that in the bud. There's little doubt the Saturn is capable of a competent port of Doom, it just never happened.

 

[milk]

I had just seen a video this week showing an emulator debuger's view of ps1 doom rendering. Was surprised to discover that although it does use raycasting, the actual pixel columns are drawn as quads by the gpu.

 

[AlNom]

Yep, Saturn's VDP1 rasterizes with quads.

 

[London Geezer]

Well they're only re-re-releasing ZOE2 for PS4 with 4k graphics on Pro. Third time purchase for me then!

 

[dogen]

The Saturn version of Doom was essentially the PS1 version with massive downgrades. The picture posted of the transparencies is a good example of Saturn having to resort to using its gimped checkerboard effect. The colored lighting in the PS1 version also puts the Saturn's version to shame. The frame rate of the Saturn version was also abysmal and the Japanese version was barely, if at all, any better.

I do recall the guy developing the Saturn version was going to use the hardware to render but Carmack nipped that in the bud. There's little doubt the Saturn is capable of a competent port of Doom, it just never happened.

Honestly there should've been a toggle for the colored lighting. I don't think it fits the game well.

 

[milk]

Yep, Saturn's VDP1 rasterizes with quads.

I was talking about the ps1 version, not saturn's. I previously thought it rendered entirely in software, but it actually takes advantage of ps1's rasterizer.

here is the video, although doom's unorthodox rendering engine screws the emulator's visualizer a bit, it can still be seen that walls are drawn line by line with what the debuger uses to tepresent polygon rasterization.

 

[Nesh]

Well they're only re-re-releasing ZOE2 for PS4 with 4k graphics on Pro. Third time purchase for me then!

I am curious how the VR will look on this game.

Also if they add extra enhancement in all PS4 versions that would be really great