Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2016 - 2017]

[Silent_Buddha]

You want better explanation ? DF just did The Last of Us Pro version:

In the description: "Is it really native 4K in the 30fps mode ?"
At 3:34 it's directly written on the video: "Native 3200x1800 (30fps)"
But they discuss resolutions in the video and say there are 2 modes: native 4K at 30fps and 1800p at 60fps.

It's a shame that they still couldn't accomplish a locked 60 FPS on the PS4-P. It does make me wonder if a 1080p non-downsampled mode was available if it'd be able to maintain a locked 60 FPS, or if the CPU is preventing that from happening.

That said, small drops aren't bad, and I'd probably take a downsampled 1080p at 60 FPS with occasional drops over a native 1080p without any drops.

does it make a difference in IQ on a 1080p TV to play either 4K 30fps or 1800p 60fps modes ?

Either one should look good. 4k downsampled should offer a slightly better static image quality than 3200x1800, while the 60 FPS mode will offer superior image quality when in motion. That assumes that you don't prefer the juddery look of 30 FPS because that's what you're used to.

The DF video discussion separates those two as if judder doesn't affect IQ, but (IMO) judder has a huge impact on IQ.

Regards,
SB

 

[Karamazov]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu705pp0mv0

Nice upgrade from base PS4. got it yesterday and it does look very good and performs well too. I'd like to see a ps4 pro patch for battlefront, maybe with the last DLC ?

 

[ultragpu]

So it's using checkerboard, my understanding is that the native res sits at 1440p to 1650p then checkerboarding to 4k?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Digital Foundry: Battlefield 1 and FIFA 17: Frostbite shines on PS4 Pro
EA's cutting-edge engine delivers impressive upgrades on both titles.

It's a fascinating turn-out overall. There may well be very good reasons why DICE didn't pursue a 1080p/ultra equivalent for Pro (driving more graphical detail does have a certain degree of CPU overhead, after all) but the chosen strategy of balancing resolution increases with enhanced visual features and improved performance works well - and the end result is that all Pro owners get a really decent upgrade, regardless of the display type they might own.​

 

[eloic]

Honestly, I would be more than happy to pay the price of playing this game at 'just' 1080 p and 60 fps in exchange for those ugly and unrealistic hands/hand positions and these horrid tube-like pants.

In last gen I thought that we would start seeing more realistic clothing. Now what? Only more realistic shaders, more resolutions and more polygons, but we're still seeing the same effing perfect tube edges in sports clothing that I could see in PS2 games. I mean, come on... Maybe this is just a very particular pet-peeve of mine, but oh, lord...

 

[London Geezer]

I agree, but it's also true that realistic looking cloth is a real performance vampire. It really does take a lot of computing power. And imagine that for 20 players on the field - or at least a few, considering LOD etc.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It's a wonderful time for gaming technology when we can complain about the footballer's shorts! To be fair, I had the same criticism of International Soccer which I owned on a fucking cartridge for the Commodore 64.

Call me when we can call into question the parentage of the referee.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I agree, but it's also true that realistic looking cloth is a real performance vampire. It really does take a lot of computing power. And imagine that for 20 players on the field - or at least a few, considering LOD etc.

It is indeed such a significant rendering problem that the solution is probably to get FIFA to require footballers to starch their shorts and have reality match the computer games...

 

[milk]

Cloth sim is not inherently expensive, it's doing it well that is a pain. Avoiding weird moon-like motion, clipping through body, etc... Still, the NBA games do simulate their player's cloth I think...

 

[eloic]

I agree, but it's also true that realistic looking cloth is a real performance vampire. It really does take a lot of computing power. And imagine that for 20 players on the field - or at least a few, considering LOD etc.

I prefer less polygons in the shorts/sleeves (I don't even care about 4K) and better motion and more realistic graphics. Why do I need a rounder TUBE edge that looks like cardboard or plastic?

It's a wonderful time for gaming technology when we can complain about the footballer's shorts!

It is, indeed... ¬_¬

Cloth sim is not inherently expensive, it's doing it well that is a pain.

Maybe a hybrid solution, prebaked animations or something?

 

[Cyan]

It's a wonderful time for gaming technology when we can complain about the footballer's shorts! To be fair, I had the same criticism of International Soccer which I owned on a fucking cartridge for the Commodore 64.

Call me when we can call into question the parentage of the referee.

the shorts, yes, but it's also the shots, making a parabola every time, they go in for whatever reason wherever you shot. However I kinda prefer a game like that to a modern FIFA, because if you try to make it realistic it should be more real. I mean, once you master the controls, basically any player becomes a Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo, or even better, a 8th wonder of the world.

Honestly, I would be more than happy to pay the price of playing this game at 'just' 1080 p and 60 fps in exchange for those ugly and unrealistic hands/hand positions and these horrid tube-like pants.

In last gen I thought that we would start seeing more realistic clothing. Now what? Only more realistic shaders, more resolutions and more polygons, but we're still seeing the same effing perfect tube edges in sports clothing that I could see in PS2 games. I mean, come on... Maybe this is just a very particular pet-peeve of mine, but oh, lord...

that's a good observation. There are a good bunch of unrealistic things about football games trying to be realistic... The most realistic football game I've ever played was PES6

 

[mpg1]

Watch Dogs 2 is using 1800p checkerboard on PS4 Pro but performs worse than PS4 during "stress points".

 

[Recop]

It could have several reasons for the worse performances on some PS4 Pro games :

- Hardware limitations
- Some developers need a bit more time to master the PS4 Pro hardware and those reconstruction techniques
- Few ressources for the Pro patch

I think that Horizon will be a great test for the PS4 Pro. I mean, if the PS4 Pro can run Horizon at least as good as the PS4 version, it should be theorically the same for other PS4 games if the Pro patch is properly done.

 

[djskribbles]

I think it's just due to the fact that these are Pro launch titles and they had relatively little time to work with. So far it has still only been a small handful of games. But we'll see I guess.

 

[iroboto]

I think it's just due to the fact that these are Pro launch titles and they had relatively little time to work with. So far it has still only been a small handful of games. But we'll see I guess.

Adding to that the expectation/standard of what a pro variant should be. Something that takes time to form and how much extra effort should be dedicated to the Pro format.

These issues will be worked out fairly soon I think.

 

[mpg1]

The guy in the video from Digital Foundry speculates that it could be a related to memory bandwidth...

 

[Globalisateur]

They sure must have fun at Digital foundry searching for all those rare stress points where the Pro version runs worse than the PS4 version and selectively ignoring the cases where it could be the contrary.

Apparently they have completely forgotten their usual face-off articles too like the COD IW face-off. How convenient this year!

 

[djskribbles]

Adding to that the expectation/standard of what a pro variant should be. Something that takes time to form and how much extra effort should be dedicated to the Pro format.

These issues will be worked out fairly soon I think.

John Linneman posted at GAF saying that most of these updates were done by 1-2 people in a very short period of time. If that is the case then I think that it has actually been a pretty smooth launch and it proves that it's really easy to utilize the extra power of the Pro.

His guesses are the same as mine and that they probably didn't have nearly enough time for testing and optimization. They probably got their games to an acceptable level and released it. I mean, it's not like performance is drastically worse in any of these odd situations where a game performs worse on the Pro.

I remain optimistic that these are just early launch issues.
If more than a handful of games show the same issues in the next wave of games, then I would start to worry a bit.

The guy in the video from Digital Foundry speculates that it could be a related to memory bandwidth...

That may or may not be the cause, but I'm sure it could have been ironed out with extra time and optimization (which again they probably did not have a lot of time to do).

 

[Clukos]

R&C is pretty impressive

 

[Karamazov]

BF1 already runs way better and with better res/assets on the pro, that's not a HW problem.
it's a new hardware with new features, devs just need some time to adapt.