Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2015]

[Rikimaru]

I think UC3 and UC4 have very good per object motion blur which does not degrade image quality.

Sadly most developers do not apply effects wisely (ugh chromatic aberration).

 

[Shortbread]

Batman Arkham

Full disclosure: footage here runs from a Sony debug unit, using code that Rocksteady is clearly comfortable handing to critics ahead of launch. As such, you'll likely spot a familiar Eurogamer name (amongst other production info) watermarked into our captures - Warner Bros was unable to provide clean code ahead of its embargo. Regardless, the analysis still paints a solid picture of what you can expect on release in a few days.

First off, in line with most open-world games this generation Arkham Knight is capped at 30fps, in this case backed by an adaptive v-sync. This works out nicely in practice: unlike the last-gen iterations of the series that used a similar setup, dips below 30fps on PS4 are relatively uncommon across the run of play. In effect, this means tearing only creeps in at exceptional points, such as heavy interplay with physics while driving the Batmobile. Thankfully screen-tear is also difficult to catch by eye even when it does flare up, owing to Gotham's darker colour palette.

As for frame-rate, aside from one streaming stutter as we're given control, the rest of play is locked at a consistent, smooth 30fps. We get seamless transitions between gameplay and cut-scenes too, which really brings this consistency to light over the breadth of a play session. The only hitch is in fast Batmobile pursuits, where the frame-rate dips to 26fps in one segment. Everything else - from effects-heavy tank combat to swoops across the city with a grappling hook - just cruises along at a clean 30fps. No stuttering, no frame-pacing issues, just a continuous line - as it should be.

 

[Gitaroo]

newer high end Sony Bravia TV has something called "motionflow impulse" that is like lightboost.

 

[TheWretched]

newer high end Sony Bravia TV has something called "motionflow impulse" that is like lightboost.

Samsungs do as well, and it's called LED Clear Motion... but you need to get used to it... the crt-like flickering is quite notable. But the added clarity is also nice. I usually do not enable it, as I use most of my devices in PC mode to get 4:4:4 chroma and lower input lag... all that disables all "improvement" algorithms.

 

[Gitaroo]

Samsungs do as well, and it's called LED Clear Motion... but you need to get used to it... the crt-like flickering is quite notable. But the added clarity is also nice. I usually do not enable it, as I use most of my devices in PC mode to get 4:4:4 chroma and lower input lag... all that disables all "improvement" algorithms.

Sony tv handle processing and input lag better in most case, motion flow impulse added very little input lag, and their FHD set are all native 4:4:4 chrome in game and graphic mode and you and still turn on motion flow impulse. Their new 2015 4K set can achieve 20ms input lag (I believe it is the lowest yet) without disabling FALD unlike samsung. Guessing their new 4X X1 processers are doing their work.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Motion blur as post process solution is destruction of information, let's be clear about that.

I wanted to repeat this, because it offers room for performance optimizations which many offline renderers have been exploiting for a while now, particularly Pixar's Renderman. You can drastically reduce the number of shading samples because the details can't be seen anyway. I wonder if games are able to take advantage of this, it should offer some nice benefits.

However there is another potential issue - it can become problematic to maintain nice strong specular highlights, which on the other hand is very easily noticeable.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Potentially one can factor the motion vectors into the shaders. I don't know if anyone does this.

 

[nightshade]

I think that it's all about what @Nesh said then, if used well.

Motion blur is a good idea for specific situations in racing games maybe but other than that, really does anyone run fast enough to make images around look blurry?

Just try to shake your hand in front of your face, not even fast just slowly, you won't be able to track it and hence get some motion blur. What I am trying to say is that it does happen even at slow speed. Better yet just lift up your leg and try to track it while you move it sideways and then try up&down ...you'll see evidence of object and camera motion blur both

 

[hesido]

Just try to shake your hand in front of your face, not even fast just slowly, you won't be able to track it and hence get some motion blur. What I am trying to say is that it does happen even at slow speed. Better yet just lift up your leg and try to track it while you move it sideways and then try up&down ...you'll see evidence of object and camera motion blur both

A more vivid example would be a spinning color wheel turning white: http://www.stevespanglerscience.com/lab/experiments/disappearing-color-wheel
This doesn't only happen in a camera view, but right in front of one's eyes of course! May sound an extreme example due to speed of rotation but still, it's an entire loss of "fidelity" if you think about it.

I wanted to repeat this, because it offers room for performance optimizations which many offline renderers have been exploiting for a while now, particularly Pixar's Renderman. You can drastically reduce the number of shading samples because the details can't be seen anyway. I wonder if games are able to take advantage of this, it should offer some nice benefits.

However there is another potential issue - it can become problematic to maintain nice strong specular highlights, which on the other hand is very easily noticeable.

I never thought about it this way, this sounds very promising. Coupling this with re-projection with error margin thresholds Sebbi talked about in a few of his posts could make for nice optimizations, and it may even balance out the uneven amount of rendering that would need to be done between frames, because that unevenness would probably come from motion anyway and those could be hidden with blur!

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Exactly, this is in some ways a low hanging fruit - but I wouldn't be surprised if the current hw architectures aren't really fit for it yet.

 

[Lalaland]

Digital Foundry vs Xbox One backwards compatibility
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-vs-backwards-compatibility-on-xbox-one

+ forces v-sync
- inconsistent perf (dropping to 10fps in places on ME1)

So it's not miraculous but it's still close, to me this suggests the titles that pushed the x360 to the limits will be a significant challenge

(cross posted in XB1 b/c thread)

 

[function]

Given that the virtual 360 is still a relativity new piece of software (and a hugely challenging one at that), there's hope that performance will improve for the more challenging titles before the emulator is out of Beta (still some months to go).

Hopefully MS will stick with it and continue to improve performance over the lifetime of the X1.

 

[BRiT]

Its not bad consider on the original MassEffect x360 there are times where it runs 15-20 fps range.

 

[AlNom]

Its not bad consider on the original MassEffect x360 there are times where it runs 15-20 fps range.

Wrex

 

[Arwin]

As for the motion blur, even at 60fps it can be an improvement if used well. Tekken was a good example of that, where motion looked much smoother. You should be able to find some comparisons still because the Xbox version didn't have it at first I think.

 

[AlNom]

As for the motion blur, even at 60fps it can be an improvement if used well. Tekken was a good example of that, where motion looked much smoother. You should be able to find some comparisons still because the Xbox version didn't have it at first I think.

That was the game that switched resolutions based on OMB, wasn't it?

 

[Arwin]

Was it? I know it did that for heavy transparancy effects, but can't remember in relation to OMB

 

[AlNom]

Was it? I know it did that for heavy transparancy effects, but can't remember in relation to OMB

Vaguely recall something about 1360*768, and then it switched to like 576p lol

edit:

ah here it is

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/xbox-360-vs-ps3-face-off-round-22-face-off?page=2

On the Xbox 360 at least, you can choose between sub-HD (1024x576) and a native rendering resolution of 1365x768. All you need to do is choose whether you want motion blur active or not.

That seems insane that OMB would necessitate a 44% drop.

 

[Arwin]

Ah, on the 360! They had SPU OBM on PS3, probably didn't have much of a clue how to do it on 360?

 

[AlNom]

Ah, on the 360! They had SPU OBM on PS3, probably didn't have much of a clue how to do it on 360?

mm... actually, I wonder now if the dual memory pool might have something to do with it because 360 had to texture from GDDR3 while PS3 could do that from both memory spaces, effectively double bandwidth or thereabouts.

derpedit:

PlayStation 3 version of Tekken 6 on the other hand is sub-HD regardless, although you do get bonus anti-aliasing added if you forego the blur, and you don't get that on 360.

hm..

Maybe framebuffer limited regardless for PS3 (GDDR3).