Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2015]

[Clukos]

Tech Analysis: Rise of the Tomb Raider

Seems like the shimmering is present in the final version, also some really rough framerate in more visually complex parts of the game (tearing and framerate sitting around 25 fps).

 

[Niebotskick]

Edit: Clukos was quicker.

 

[AlNom]

They could have done something like last cascades to only use non-dynamic occluders and refreshed rarely. (1/4 degrees of sun movement?)
Perhaps using the scrolling trick from Insomniac, or just render BIG far cascade like Ryse did.
After that it's 'just' the sampling cost for more cascades.

I am sure the 33ms budget allow shadows that do not vanish near player on current gen console.

Shoulda woulda coulda?* When they're in town things seem fine at least.

* cough* running theme of the engine discussion

 

[iroboto]

Tech Analysis: Rise of the Tomb Raider

Seems like the shimmering is present in the final version, also some really rough framerate in more visually complex parts of the game (tearing and framerate sitting around 25 fps).

Hmm lol. I had to toss up between buying Legacy of the Void, TR and FO.
It became a tight race between SC2 and TR after FO4 fell out. But now I'm wondering if there will be one more patch to address performance issues in those sections.

Hmm. LOTV it is! Thank you DF?? Lol this would be the second time I've delayed a purchase now. First W3 and now ROTR.

 

[AlNom]

Seems like the shimmering is present in the final version, also some really rough framerate in more visually complex parts of the game (tearing and framerate sitting around 25 fps).

Too bad they don't have a dynamic res in place. Assuming those drops are purely pixel-related, a drop to ~1536-1600*1080 ought to stabilize things there. When not in action, the framerate seems fine.

Spoiler

Or just give me the option to turn off TressFX and put that extra GPU headroom to use elsewhere. :V

Really though, they needed to do something about the shader aliasing that seems to be everywhere...

 

[I.S.T.]

Dumb question, but how does one tell Shader Aliasing from standard Aliasing?

 

[Lalaland]

Dumb question, but how does one tell Shader Aliasing from standard Aliasing?

Would love to know this too, is this akin to the aliasing you sometimes see in reflections because they're produced in a lower res framebuffer?

Update from DF:
Faster hard drives boost Xbox One Fallout 4 performance

Basically an SSD speeds up loads and almost eliminate stuttering confirming that most of the problem is I/O, seriously Bethesda games have always had this issue I can recall new combat shouts triggering hdd activity mid fight tanking my frame rate on Oblivion so glad to see Bethesda has kept this 'feature'.

Of more interest to me is that it seems to confirm that the internal SATA port on the PS4 is throttled somehow as the XB1 loads faster from an SSD over USB 3.0 than the PS4 does (although the minor cpu clock speed advantage may play here too the gulf seems too wide IMO). Goddammit Sony disable the I/O speed limit!

 

[Gitaroo]

PS4 with SSD still load faster in a few cases. PS4 stock HDD loads almost as fast as Xbone with 7200 rpm or faster in some cases is quite funny.

 

[Lalaland]

PS4 with SSD still load faster in a few cases. PS4 stock HDD loads almost as fast as Xbone with 7200 rpm or faster in some cases is quite funny.

My reading comprehension still needs work it seems, now I'm just baffled! It seems actually to be all over the place but I would still assume that the SATA port should win every time just for the lower control overhead

 

[Shortbread]

Tech Analysis: Rise of the Tomb Raider

Surprising as it may seem, sub-native games such as Ryse offer superior image quality despite operating at a lower resolution - raw pixel count is only one component of the visual presentation, after all. The fact that performance often feels rather unstable throughout only serves to suggest that perhaps pushing for a full 1080p on Xbox One in this case has taken its toll.

The 1080pr battle isn't going to stop with Rise of the Tomb Raider though...

Ryse and Quantum Break look quite quite good at sub 1080p resolutions... that should have been Crystal Dynamics target resolution from the start.

 

[Gitaroo]

yeah, uneven scaling is always problematic.

 

[Clukos]

Dumb question, but how does one tell Shader Aliasing from standard Aliasing?

Play Alien Isolation, no matter how high your resolution is there's still visible aliasing in motion.

About RoTR, I've posted two examples of it already, seems largely unchanged in the final game sadly.

http://giant.gfycat.com/AmazingAnguishedGermanspitz.gif
http://giant.gfycat.com/UnripeMemorableDairycow.gif

 

[Lalaland]

Weird effect is it possible to deduce which shader is causing the issue from screenshots and video or is that the kind of thing you'd need access to the code for?

Also A++ on the gif filenames Clukos!

 

[Clukos]

Weird effect is it possible to deduce which shader is causing the issue from screenshots and video or is that the kind of thing you'd need access to the code for?

Also A++ on the gif filenames Clukos!

That's just gfycat creating unique names but you can find some really funny ones

 

[steveOrino]

The 1080pr battle isn't going to stop with Rise of the Tomb Raider though...

Ryse and Quantum Break look quite quite good at sub 1080p resolutions... that should have been Crystal Dynamics target resolution from the start.

Yep, running into a disturbing theme here (same with the PS4 in some cases).

Devs should start adding the PC options menu to their games because it seems the developers are unwilling to put stable performance above anything else. Stop holding the consumer hostage because of PR fears

 

[Lalaland]

The problem with settings menus on console are the same we're seeing on PC ie folks who slap everything to Ultra and complain if they don't get 60fps. On the PC side this is down to folks having gotten used to Ultra being a synonym for 'higher res textures' during the x360/PS3 era so the idea that Ultra means 'Will make even your next GPU cry' as in the 'golden era' is alien these days. On the console side I pay for the lack of flexibility in return for the devs doing all the hard work, I don't think paying for less flexibility and being mired in complexity is an attractive value proposition.

Devs shouldn't be building settings menus they need to either downgrade or optimise until they achieve at least 30fps at whatever res. Of course more than one has just walked away from doing this so we need to praise those who keep returning to the task and deride those who don't. I'm astonished at how loud the W3 moaning got and how muted the response to them doing the work on PS4 has been, it's unfortunate that we're in a place where 'fixed the dodgy bits' is praise worthy but it is and we should be louder (I was glad to see DF did a follow up on W3)..

 

[Shortbread]

Devs should start adding the PC options menu to their games

This.

IQ and post-processing scaling options would be great this generation and thereafter.

 

[AlNom]

The problem with settings menus on console are the same we're seeing on PC ie folks who slap everything to Ultra and complain if they don't get 60fps.

I think the suggestion is being able to toggle effects that the developers have already implemented into the base game (their 'vision'), not to go beyond it (at least that would be the easier path).

That said, stuff like AA/AF could certainly be a slippery slope for complaints unless they have this big fat warning about "user experience" for advanced options. I'm not sure devs would bother with anything that would heavily impact memory allocation though (MSAA/resolution/shadow res etc).

 

[Shortbread]

The problem with settings menus on console are the same we're seeing on PC ie folks who slap everything to Ultra and complain if they don't get 60fps.

A good solid warning that scaling options could/would have an adverse effect on performance wold stop most. I expect casual users wouldn't fiddle too much with IQ and post-processing settings. Advanced/hardcore gamers more than likely will. Anyhow, there are plenty of console games that allowed users on doing so (The Last of Us, God of War, etc...), even during the PS2 era.

 

[Rangers]

Of more interest to me is that it seems to confirm that the internal SATA port on the PS4 is throttled somehow as the XB1 loads faster from an SSD over USB 3.0 than the PS4 does

Isn't PS4 just using bottle necked SATA 2?