Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2014]

[Rangers]

People know the XB1 cant hit 1080p??? Honestly I get what you are driving at, but that blanket statement is incredibly false. I agree Ms should allow the devs to make their own choices when it comes to res and framerate. The bottom line though is that the XB1 is plenty capable of supporting 1080p. The main issue is hitting 1080p at 60fps for a majority of devs.
Which isnt set in stone. A year from now we could see breakthroughs in memory management that could make it much easier to hit the fabled next gen console standard.
I just find it strange that people are constanty saying 1080p isnt possible on XB1 when there are several games that completely prove otherwise.

I wish we had a list of all lets say, retail packaged games (at least, "ones of note") on XBO and their resolution, Is it the majority that are not 1080P? I'd like to get a sense of the totality of the picture. I really dont know how to go about that.

IGN has some resolutions on a wikia, but i think it's by no means complete and tends to gravitate to games where there's a difference between XBO/PS4. And we dont have a thread reference that anybody's bothered to update like we did last gen.

Maybe I will start making my own notepad list to keep track to the best of my knowledge.

 

[djskribbles]

IGN's is the only one that I know of, and it seems correct for the most part.

http://ca.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_Native_Resolutions_and_Framerates

 

[function]

People know the XB1 cant hit 1080p??? Honestly I get what you are driving at, but that blanket statement is incredibly false. I agree Ms should allow the devs to make their own choices when it comes to res and framerate. The bottom line though is that the XB1 is plenty capable of supporting 1080p.

Shifty is well aware of this. He was trying to highlight the perception issue that currently appears to common on the interwebnets.

We've had "1080p" capable consoles since 2005. It's always been a choice.

Personally, I don't like the fact that the 1080p cheerleaders have managed to bring about a climate where tickboxes take precedence over effective delivery of gameplay.

Almost every asshole that's gone on to me about "1080p" irl hasn't had overscan turned off on their tv. They've been sucking down overscan (and therefore none-native upscaling) like a sickly piglet feeding on mama pig's pustulous pig-teat.

 

[steveOrino]

I feel the same way about people preaching that higher resolutions don't matter and 60fps is too "video gamey".

But hey, at least I have a choice and that's all I can ask for.

 

[function]

I doubt anyone has told you that "higher resolutions" "don't matter" or that 60 fps is " too "video gamey", let alone preached it.

 

[Rangers]

IGN's is the only one that I know of, and it seems correct for the most part.

http://ca.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_Native_Resolutions_and_Framerates

It's missing a lot though I think, and I'm guessing the ones it's missing tend to be uneventful 1080 on both. Madden is one missing I noticed right off. That wikia will likely be updated more with titles that are not 1080 on one or both platforms, for example, UFC. Because resolution tends to get publicized in those cases.

I'm even interested in dumb titles like I dont know, Barbie Adventures or something if such a thing existed on X1/PS4. I want a true complete picture to get a percentage from. Which of course will not be at all complete as we wont get info on every game.

I just wonder what % of games are 1080 on X1. 30? 50? 70?

I'll work on such a project later, using the IGN wikia as my starting point.

Edit: OK, I started this project, for now I canvassed the Wikia. It's a lot of tough calls, some games on the list are not out, some just seem too "small" or indie to bother with ("The Golf Club", Outlast). Some poorly sourced (link to a tweet stating game is 1080), in general I didn't bother with games too far out, regardless dev statements what they're targeting (The Crew). I even left out lets say, Minecraft, as being too far out, even though doubtless that game will end up 1080 on X1. Anyways so after my culling I was left with 28 titles, 11 in 1080P, or 39%.

That's all just the ones on the IGN wikia.

 

[Betanumerical]

They didn't show the most hectic moments of the game tough, like the multiplayer and the last hectic levels of the game.

Looks like they carefully selected what they showed in the performance video, there are never more than a dozen mobs on screen.

Yeah it does, the first 10 seconds the performance drops to 50FPS with like 7 monsters on screen. How good is the perf going to be later on when theres more like 40 monsters on screen? with tonnes of different prefix and postfixes that add to to the pixel shader load (fire chains, poison, etc).

 

[Rangers]

Yeah it does, the first 10 seconds the performance drops to 50FPS with like 7 monsters on screen. How good is the perf going to be later on when theres more like 40 monsters on screen? with tonnes of different prefix and postfixes that add to to the pixel shader load (fire chains, poison, etc).

Somebody said on GAF those later mobs have been dumbed down/reduced for the consoles performance.

It would be good to see results for both consoles from the most demanding areas possible, though. I guess maybe those are gonna take a while just for DF to reach them before they could even do an article.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah it does, the first 10 seconds the performance drops to 50FPS with like 7 monsters on screen. How good is the perf going to be later on when theres more like 40 monsters on screen?

There's a quote in one of the threads about this and how they wanted high framerate when it gets busy, quoting multiplayer as 4 Witch Doctors as the worst case, which is why they chose 900p. If the framerate tanks in busy multiplayer, the developers will basically have been overruled.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

There's a quote in one of the threads about this and how they wanted high framerate when it gets busy, quoting multiplayer as 4 Witch Doctors as the worst case, which is why they chose 900p. If the framerate tanks in busy multiplayer, the developers will basically have been overruled.

First they came for the framerates and I did not speak out.

Sony may have a Karl Marx simulator in The Tomorrow Children, but Microsoft seemingly have actual Marxist policies when it comes to developer's creative freedom of choice. What the hell happened to we'll let developers decide resolutions?

 

[joker454]

First they came for the framerates and I did not speak out.

Sony may have a Karl Marx simulator in The Tomorrow Children, but Microsoft seemingly have actual Marxist policies when it comes to developer's creative freedom of choice. What the hell happened to we'll let developers decide resolutions?

I'd say countless resolution gate type articles being put out every other day on websites is what happened. Gamers spoke, and resolution this gen is suddenly of the utmost importance to where they will only put their pitchforks away if the vertical resolution starts with a 1 and ends in 080p. Anything else (after being verified by a pixel counter) is a visual travesty, so Microsoft is complying to gamers wishes. As a bonus that helps us easily segway into the new topic of how Microsoft Marxist policies are now ruining gaming. Discuss.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'd say countless resolution gate type articles being put out every other day on websites is what happened. Gamers spoke, and resolution this gen is suddenly of the utmost importance to where they will only put their pitchforks away if the vertical resolution starts with a 1 and ends in 080p.

When you say "gamers spoke" you mean the very vocal segment that prize resolution over all else. Now Microsoft have, in what seems to be a weekly thing, upsets another segment; those who prioritise framerate.

The silly thing is, that by interceding Microsoft have set themselves up to be the villain to those who disagree with their directive. I don't know if Xbox Division is built on an ancient native American burial ground but they almost seem cursed of late. Everything they do or say seems to backfire.

On the issue of their intervention/directive, and it's not clear how strong this was, did this ever happen to you?

 

[Nesh]

First they came for the framerates and I did not speak out.

Sony may have a Karl Marx simulator in The Tomorrow Children, but Microsoft seemingly have actual Marxist policies when it comes to developer's creative freedom of choice. What the hell happened to we'll let developers decide resolutions?

There is nothing "Marxist". Its just plain capitalism
If the capitalist has the power to force decision he will use it.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

There is nothing "Marxist". Its just plain capitalism
If the capitalist has the power to force decision he will use it.

Sorry, I was being incredibly abstract! One of Marx's goals was to eliminate societal conflict which I (poorly) decided to represent as framerate on one side and resolution on the other (you can decide who is lower/upper class!) and by removing the choice you achieve gaming/technological socialism.

Yeah, it was rubbish I know!

 

[joker454]

When you say "gamers spoke" you mean the very vocal segment that prize resolution over all else. Now Microsoft have, in what seems to be a weekly thing, upsets another segment; those who prioritise framerate.

The silly thing is, that by interceding Microsoft have set themselves up to be the villain to those who disagree with their directive. I don't know if Xbox Division is built on an ancient native American burial ground but they almost seem cursed of late. Everything they do or say seems to backfire.

I think it only tends to matter when it starts hitting mainstream type non gaming websites. I don't think the vocal gaming minority really has the power to make a company change their direction on their own no matter how much outrage they scream, unless they are so vocal so as to get non gaming mainstream websites to catch on and start reporting it. So like with the xb1 drm stuff where I think it was Jimmy Fallon on his show saying how the xb1 can't play used games, stuff like that can have an effect. I know when my wife who isn't into gaming at all tells me "Did you hear that the new Xbox won't let you play used games?" that the fud machine has succeed and now they will force Microsofts hand.

Same with resolution gate, articles on that are quite literally *everywhere* even on websites like Forbes. I mean really, Forbes? So if the outrage is restricted to just gaming websites then I don't think it's as big of a deal, but once it's on CNN, Oprah or wherever then they are done, they will have to do something to respond. I think that's what is happening in this case. I mean I even found xb1 resolution gate reported on a website in South Carolina about high powered model Rocketry. No joke, it's everywhere! So what can they do? I think their hand was forced once again. Yeah that will make them the villain once again for ruining gaming, forcing downgraded visuals for parity, etc, but that will always be the case. So long as it can be contained to the circlejerk known as gaming websites they will be ok since most regular people don't read those anyways.

 

[shredenvain]

First they came for the framerates and I did not speak out.

Sony may have a Karl Marx simulator in The Tomorrow Children, but Microsoft seemingly have actual Marxist policies when it comes to developer's creative freedom of choice. What the hell happened to we'll let developers decide resolutions?

The internet happened! Forums like this I dont blame. It is the constant barrage of Resolution gate click bate articles on the web. The internet gaming media has shifted the focus from great gameplay and beautiful graphics to 1080P 60fps or bust. If it doesnt hit that target a game is considered to have inferior graphics.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The internet gaming media has shifted the focus from great gameplay and beautiful graphics to 1080P 60fps or bust.

I don't think that's true. At least, it wasn't the intention. Articles like DF's shed light on technical aspects of the game as general interest, in addition to the gameplay reviews, and give a meaningful comparison. eg. 900p is blurrier than 1080p, but, as DF themselves have said, it's very hard to perceive the difference. It's dumb schmucks who need to validate everything with a Cartesian value who have made it more about the resolution and nothing else. These pure numerical comparisons are perfect ammunition in the console wars and some are wielding it.

Perhaps the most serious aspect is that pixel counting can give a quantitative comparison where before there was none. In days of old, the same game on two different consoles 'looked a bit sharper' and 'looked a little more detailed.' It was all so very fuzzy and indeterminate that people probably didn't care so much, human comparative psychology being what it is. But now those differences are being measured, people can grasp a numerical difference and respond.

Quite frankly, it's information that the public isn't really clued up enough to wield responsibly. And in this social-media age, none of the companies are clued up with how to deal with it. MS is the one finding all the negativity and it responding where it probably shouldn't. If the roles were reversed, I'd expect something similar perhaps from Sony. There's a definite media pressure against the console company whose numbers aren't as big, and they've no idea what PR countermeasures to deploy, instead trying an engineering solution.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

There's a definite media pressure against the console company whose numbers aren't as big, and they've no idea what PR countermeasures to deploy, instead trying an engineering solution.

Although this isn't PR, this is internal Microsoft thinking that clearly, and embarrassingly, contradicts their public position.

It's a mega d'oh! What is really surprising is Blizzard actually being forthright about their communication with Microsoft. Whoever spoke must have known this could be a little embarrassing.

Why Blizzard, why?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner.

 

[iroboto]

I'm going to chalk this one up to; the internet cannot be 'wrong'.

They've rallied and proved that MS is full of it and they are convinced that there is nothing MS can do or say to refute the knowledge base that they have gained.

MS will never catch a break even if they rolled over died and said sorry and we made a mistake with an inferior system. It's not like all of a sudden people are going to start buying it. They've lost the power war.

They'll need to make up in other ways. And they will: they are likely engineering in the OS, app and cloud power space. All spaces that Sony is measurably weaker at.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Although this isn't PR...

It comes down to product image. there's negative image in the media due to lower numbers. MS's approach is to try to rectify the number deficit (by taking numbers from elsewhere). What they should probably be doing is ignoring the number thing, downplaying it, pushing forward their strengths.

MS will never catch a break even if they rolled over died and said sorry and we made a mistake with an inferior system. It's not like all of a sudden people are going to start buying it. They've lost the power war.

I agree, but this the wrong thread. What MS certainly shouldn't be doing is telling devs how to make their games. They should have learnt that from last gen when they very quickly abandoned the 720p minimum resolution requirement.