Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2014]

[pjbliverpool]

Maybe they are cpu limited on the consoles? I came across this benchmark image:

...seems like it works normally clocked Amd cpu's pretty hard and the console cpu's are underclocked a fair amount compared to the ones in the benchmark above.

Another option (just putting it out there for consideration - not saying its more likely than a straight forward CPU limitation) is that this CPU workload on the PC is being done through GPU compute on the consoles and so the GPU load is actually heavier on the consoles than it is on PC.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Article up on Eurogamer.

MCC sounds nice. Definitely the most tempting Xbox One title yet.

 

[mosen]

What kind of lighting technique they used in Halo 2 Anniversary? The reflection of most/all dynamic lights is visible from glossy planar/non-planar surfaces (covenant guns, ground, walls and other objects) in real-time. I didn't see such a thing in previous Halo games, it's new to me. However, I saw same effect in very small Halo 5 footage from E3 2014.

 

[nightshade]

What kind of lighting technique they used in Halo 2 Anniversary? The reflection of most/all dynamic lights is visible from glossy planar/non-planar surfaces (covenant guns, ground, walls and other objects) in real-time. I didn't see such a thing in previous Halo games, it's new to me. However, I saw same effect in very small Halo 5 footage from E3 2014.

It's probably just SSR rather than the lighting technique.

 

[HTupolev]

What kind of lighting technique they used in Halo 2 Anniversary? The reflection of most/all dynamic lights is visible from glossy planar/non-planar surfaces (covenant guns, ground, walls and other objects) in real-time. I didn't see such a thing in previous Halo games, it's new to me. However, I saw same effect in very small Halo 5 footage from E3 2014.

Most previous Halo games had some degree of compromise on which dynamic lights would cast what reflection types on what surfaces, although Halo 3 has pretty thorough support for specular response from dynamic lights on glossy surfaces (and even has a fairly complete response on water surfaces).

What I've noticed in H2A footage is that the specular reflections with respect to sources in the environment are pretty accurate. I wonder if this might just be a result of Sabre's engine using lots of "actual" light sources (as compared to previous games' heavy reliance on low-frequency lightmaps)?

 

[mosen]

Most previous Halo games had some degree of compromise on which dynamic lights would cast what reflection types on what surfaces, although Halo 3 has pretty thorough support for specular response from dynamic lights on glossy surfaces (and even has a fairly complete response on water surfaces).

What I've noticed in H2A footage is that the specular reflections with respect to sources in the environment are pretty accurate. I wonder if this might just be a result of Sabre's engine using lots of "actual" light sources (as compared to previous games' heavy reliance on low-frequency lightmaps)?

I'm not so sure but I think I saw some reflections from dynamic light sources that weren't visible in the screen (sometimes they were behind the walls or other objects and sometimes they were moving outside of the screen and weren't visible for the player, but their reflections were visible). For example see this video(around 1:08:10), and you can see a reflection from needler bullet that is coming from behind (from seeing it's reflection) and after that it's visible for the player, like this:

Maybe they only used SSR, as nightshade mentioned.

 

[HTupolev]

I'm not so sure but I think I saw some reflections from dynamic light sources that weren't visible in the screen

I'm not really sure where this is going. There are reflections from dynamic light sources that aren't visible on-screen, so what? That's what light sources do.

I'm extremely confused right now. It's like either I'm missing something, or people are just now discovering that dynamic lights in video games cast light, despite this being a thing for a couple decades now.

:s

 

[mosen]

I'm not really sure where this is going. There are reflections from dynamic light sources that aren't visible on-screen, so what? That's what light sources do.

I'm extremely confused right now. It's like either I'm missing something, or people are just now discovering that dynamic lights in video games cast light, despite this being a thing for a couple decades now.

:s

Now I'm confused, too. Forget it.

 

[-tkf-]

Maybe they are cpu limited on the consoles? I came across this benchmark image:

...seems like it works normally clocked Amd cpu's pretty hard and the console cpu's are underclocked a fair amount compared to the ones in the benchmark above.

What could keep 8 cores so busy.

 

[AlNom]

I'm not really sure where this is going.

To plaid. Light speed's too slow.

 

[pjbliverpool]

What could keep 8 cores so busy.

Frame rate I guess. If the game isn't GPU limited then you can use as much CPU power as is available with ever higher frame rates.

 

[Shortbread]

To plaid. Light speed's too slow.

 

[mosen]

I'm not really sure where this is going. There are reflections from dynamic light sources that aren't visible on-screen, so what? That's what light sources do.

I'm extremely confused right now. It's like either I'm missing something, or people are just now discovering that dynamic lights in video games cast light, despite this being a thing for a couple decades now.

:s

Now I'm confused, too. Forget it.

You're talking about the "light" (of the source) while I'm talking about the "reflection of light source" on the surface. So we're talking about different things.

 

[Cyan]

Article up on Eurogamer. Summary, which confirms reports elsewhere:

The campaigns are final, the Multiplayer still being worked on - 20Gb day patch imminent.

Halo CE (port by Saber)

• Game can’t sustain 60fps - looks close most of the time.
• Internal game mechanics are 30hz, “such as vehicles in the opening cut-scene, for instance - updating at a different rate to the renderer, resulting in obvious judder.”

Halo 2 (Port by Saber)

• Journalists are only allowed to report on ‘The Gravemind’ stage.
• 1328x1080 frame buffer but two (old and new) age engines running all the time.
• New CG rendered for cutscenes.
• 30hz issues fixed.

Halo 3 and Halo 4 (ports by Ruffian Games)

• 1080p 60fps port - little “remastering”

Great value, I'll definitely be grabbing this when I get a One

Superb, excellent article by Richard. I am very curious about every single game in the package.

As for Halo 3, the new touch of the lighting engine and small things like how the fps and resolution boost affect the game, will be very interesting too.

At 720p it wouldn't be a problem, but at 640p, one of the most pristine memories I have of Halo 3 is the dam by the end of the first level of the game.

The draw distance was huge! And the 640p were very distracting even on my old, former 22" HDTV, 'cos the fences, and the enemies, elements on the screen when seen atop that hill in the very distance, were full of artefacts, they even looked like odd dots moving around.

I mean, when you see the dam in the distance for the first time in the original Halo 3, and you are over that hill, the distant elements look like watercolour painting with undefined traces and outlines.

It was pixel crawling all over. I wonder if they will cover things like that in their future DF article.

 

[Cyan]

Article up on Eurogamer. Summary, which confirms reports elsewhere:

The campaigns are final, the Multiplayer still being worked on - 20Gb day patch imminent.

Halo CE (port by Saber)

• Game can’t sustain 60fps - looks close most of the time.
• Internal game mechanics are 30hz, “such as vehicles in the opening cut-scene, for instance - updating at a different rate to the renderer, resulting in obvious judder.”

Halo 2 (Port by Saber)

• Journalists are only allowed to report on ‘The Gravemind’ stage.
• 1328x1080 frame buffer but two (old and new) age engines running all the time.
• New CG rendered for cutscenes.
• 30hz issues fixed.

Halo 3 and Halo 4 (ports by Ruffian Games)

• 1080p 60fps port - little “remastering”

Great value, I'll definitely be grabbing this when I get a One

Additionally, I also wonder if the DF article will address the shadows on Halo 4, which to me were the only not so good thing about the game, technically wise, 'cos shadows sometimes appeared or disappeared in front of your eyes in the original Halo 4, and I am curious whether they fixed that in the Halo TMCC version of Halo 4 or not.

 

[jlippo]

You're talking about the "light" (of the source) while I'm talking about the "reflection of light source" on the surface. So we're talking about different things.

Reflection of a light source is called a specular reflection when talking about lighting..
Meaning specular is just another name for reflections. (It's simplification of reflection for direct lighting of different shapes of lightsources.)

Of course current engines usually do separate the two for obvious performance reasons.

 

[function]

Maybe they are cpu limited on the consoles? I came across this benchmark image:

...seems like it works normally clocked Amd cpu's pretty hard and the console cpu's are underclocked a fair amount compared to the ones in the benchmark above.

Any idea what kind of frame rate we're looking at there? The consoles are landing in at around 25, so it would be interesting to know what kind of fps is causing these kinds of results. Does seem to scale pretty well with no of cores, which is cool.

PC version could be using higher quality effects too, e.g. particles.

Edit: GTX 980, so probably 100fps or something ungodly like that!

 

[TheWretched]

For those interested, there's a slideshare about Lords of the Fallen here:

http://de.slideshare.net/philiphamm...rds-of-the-fallen-game-connection-europe-2014

 

[Starx]

I'm wondering why the game runs at 900p on xbox one?

 

[TheWretched]

Because 12 vs 18 CUs, I assume.