Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2023]

Status
Not open for further replies.
All makers of controllers should switch away from the current sticks and go with something that lasts. No need for replaceable sticks if you fix the actual primary cause.

That would allow for the normal amount of room inside, so it could use normal sized battery compartment instead of tiny size.
 
All makers of controllers should switch away from the current sticks and go with something that lasts. No need for replaceable sticks if you fix the actual primary cause.

That would allow for the normal amount of room inside, so it could use normal sized battery compartment instead of tiny size.
I want to praise Sony for the replaceable sticks. It would have been better for them to be electromagnetic sticks, but I still commend them for a solution that does not require replacing the entire controller. Microsoft should consider electromagnetic sticks or something else that does not have stick drift with the Elite series 3. Even if it costs more than Sony's solution, I would consider it worth the money.
 
Don't particularly disagree, but its pricing is comparable to other solutions on the market. If Scuf can charge $200+ for a controller, why can't Sony et al?


There are already existing 3rd party options. Sony are offering a different option with a different balance of advantages and disadvantages, particularly replacing thumbsticks for $40 instead of needing another $200 controller* when those are worn out. I don't understand why Sony should leave it to 3rd parties, or be expected to create a cheaper option. If I'm in the market for a high-end controller on PS5, I can choose Scuf or Hexgaming or Megamodz or Sony. If DS Edge didn't exist, I'd have one less choice and none offering replaceable thumbsticks.

DS Edge is too rich for my blood, I'd prefer better battery life, and I expect Sony would sell many more with better battery life and a lower price. As a gamer, I'd like an elite controller sold at cost - heck gimme a free pack-in game or two as well! As a business move, a product to make profits, this seems a reasonable option for the console company. It feels a step backwards in terms of consumer focus from PS4's days, with Sony's generally pricing feeling to be heading upwards - this is a completely different value proposition to the fabulous DS4 paddle add-on - but if I don't like it I can always shop elsewhere, from controllers to platforms.

* Though ironically possibly needing a new $200 controller instead of a $10 battery replacement! :ROFLMAO:
You make a good point. Liked.
 
All makers of controllers should switch away from the current sticks and go with something that lasts. No need for replaceable sticks if you fix the actual primary cause.

That would allow for the normal amount of room inside, so it could use normal sized battery compartment instead of tiny size.
What's the actual cost to implement alternatives to physical pots?
 
What's the actual cost to implement alternatives to physical pots?

You can buy an entire retail joystick using Hall Sensors that is Bluetooth based and works with Switch, Android, PC, MacOS, and IOS. The article says it retails for $60, but Amazon was $70.


Maybe $1 to $10 for a dual stick setup for the tech license and sensors?

 
Now I understand why Sony forbid DS4 compatibility on PS5 games except for remote play. Because people wanting back paddles on PS5 will have to fork out $200 instead of $30.
The whole situation is very frustrating to me.

Sony(and MS) could have easily made back paddles as standard on the DS5, too. So no having to fork out any extra money at all. Developers could then find new ways to utilize them rather than just as alternatives to face buttons, too. It would have basically marked the first meaningful change to standard controller input design in a very long time(though gyro might also count, but it's also not standard since MS refuses to add it).

So disappointed neither did this.

And yea, there's no way on earth I'm paying $150+ for a controller. Even if it had hall effect sensors, I still find controllers will usually develop some sort of fault somewhere at some point. None are reliable enough for me to feel comfortable spending that kind of money on one.
 

Hi-Fi Rush tech review: a visual treat indebted to comics and TV cartoons​

DF's analysis of the Series X/S and PC versions.

Hi-Fi Rush is superb. Announced at Microsoft's Developer_Direct showcase last week and released immediately thereafter, the game is a wildly creative effort from developer Tango Gameworks. There are elements of action, platformer, rhythm and side-scroller games, all held together by an incredible sense of style and bold visual choices.

This is a wild, courageous game that succeeds on just about every level - and it's an eye-popping visual treat as well. It's also the first major first-party Microsoft title in over a year, ending a prolonged drought for exclusive Xbox software. Today, we'll be taking a look at Hi-Fi Rush's daring flair and beat-matching brawling action, and try to get a sense of what makes this game tick.

...
 
Now I understand why Sony forbid DS4 compatibility on PS5 games except for remote play. Because people wanting back paddles on PS5 will have to fork out $200 instead of $30.
I presumed this is because DualSense had hardware that DualShock 4 does not, including more sensitive gyros, touchpad, vastly different rumble and of course the triggers are different. Some games might work but plenty would not. DualShock 4 works fine for backwards compatibility games.
 
The whole situation is very frustrating to me.

Sony(and MS) could have easily made back paddles as standard on the DS5, too. So no having to fork out any extra money at all. Developers could then find new ways to utilize them rather than just as alternatives to face buttons, too. It would have basically marked the first meaningful change to standard controller input design in a very long time(though gyro might also count, but it's also not standard since MS refuses to add it).

So disappointed neither did this.

And yea, there's no way on earth I'm paying $150+ for a controller. Even if it had hall effect sensors, I still find controllers will usually develop some sort of fault somewhere at some point. None are reliable enough for me to feel comfortable spending that kind of money on one.

Companies are always going to try to segment products to make more money. I am sure at some point paddles on the back will become stnadard but that wont happen until they come up with another feature people will pay more for.

I have a elite 2 controller master chief edition and I like it aside from the battery being lipo . I only paid $80 for it however and I don't see what they can really add that would make me rush out for a new one. Maybe a keypad ?


Hi-Fi Rush tech review: a visual treat indebted to comics and TV cartoons​

DF's analysis of the Series X/S and PC versions.

Hi-Fi Rush is superb. Announced at Microsoft's Developer_Direct showcase last week and released immediately thereafter, the game is a wildly creative effort from developer Tango Gameworks. There are elements of action, platformer, rhythm and side-scroller games, all held together by an incredible sense of style and bold visual choices.

This is a wild, courageous game that succeeds on just about every level - and it's an eye-popping visual treat as well. It's also the first major first-party Microsoft title in over a year, ending a prolonged drought for exclusive Xbox software. Today, we'll be taking a look at Hi-Fi Rush's daring flair and beat-matching brawling action, and try to get a sense of what makes this game tick.

...
Series s is 1440p with no signs of dynamic
Series x is a full 4k with no signs of dynamic res

Looks like series s has lower quality shadows and gras density. Both are consistent at 60fps but series s has a few extra drops.

I have the say the game looks beautiful on my series x and I am enjoying it a lot.
 
You can buy an entire retail joystick using Hall Sensors that is Bluetooth based and works with Switch, Android, PC, MacOS, and IOS. The article says it retails for $60, but Amazon was $70.


Maybe $1 to $10 for a dual stick setup for the tech license and sensors?


It's funny how hall sensor analog sticks are somehow too expensive to use on the standard controllers when Sega used them on the Saturn and Dreamcast 25 years ago.
 
It's funny how hall sensor analog sticks are somehow too expensive to use on the standard controllers when Sega used them on the Saturn and Dreamcast 25 years ago.

It's that micro-accounting aspect which all companies should be using. You save $0.01 USD across 400 Million units to make an extra $4 Million USD. Even more money if the cost differential is higher than a penny. So many gamers buy new controllers when newer designer colors or styles are released.
 
I presumed this is because DualSense had hardware that DualShock 4 does not, including more sensitive gyros, touchpad, vastly different rumble and of course the triggers are different. Some games might work but plenty would not. DualShock 4 works fine for backwards compatibility games.
I did too, but eventually changed my mind. AFAIK all native PS5 games are playable using DS4 via remote play. You can also emulate DS4 natively on PS5 by deactivating triggers and haptic motors.

After 2 years no PS5 games mandate DualSense specific features. I don't think this will change now.
 
It's that micro-accounting aspect which all companies should be using. You save $0.01 USD across 400 Million units to make an extra $4 Million USD. Even more money if the cost differential is higher than a penny. So many gamers buy new controllers when newer designer colors or styles are released.

That and when one breaks you just go out and get another one. Two of my 13yo's controllers developed bad analog sticks in the last year, one of them being an Elite Series 2. The Elite will be fixed under warranty, but this isn't something we should have to deal with on such an expensive controller.
 
You can buy an entire retail joystick using Hall Sensors that is Bluetooth based and works with Switch, Android, PC, MacOS, and IOS. The article says it retails for $60, but Amazon was $70.


Maybe $1 to $10 for a dual stick setup for the tech license and sensors?


I plan on trying this. It requires a wingman XB for console compatibility which costs $50.

I am particularly hard on controllers and I imagine most people readily but unknowingly abuse their controllers. I think most unconsciously impose unnecessary amounts of force and pressure on their controllers and eventually but prematurely wear out their devices. Constantly slamming joysticks into walls of their controllers while pressing the sticks into the wall like they are trying to pin a professional thumb wrestling champ. I've owned 3 premium controllers and while they haven't saved me from drift (or in the case of the elite one, shoddy grips), they have held up way better than your base console controllers. Plus the Elite Core is only $120 and the difference between it and the Pro model ($169 now) seems to be a lack of paddles (even though it supports paddles), storage/charging station and extra customizable thumb sticks.

To me the state of controllers is the product of its price, typical abuse and the fact that despite complaints, our willingness to repurchase. $120 for a controller that doesn't develop drift, has a 25 hour battery life and a much lower error rate than official controllers seems like a win to me.

So, if the King Kong Pro 2 is a viable option (even if it needs a work around) for the XSX, then I am going to support it. If you want hall effect joysticks as a standard, you have to overwhelmingly support the devices that have them.

Because if I sell you cheap devices that constantly needs replacing and you keep buying the devices, I am not the fool in this scenario.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top