Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2022]

[PSman1700]

Links to back up your statements please.

Im wondering the size of the install base, theres no information on that. We got revenue which seems higher on playstation. How many players across each platform?

Seems there where over 110 million on ios alone before it got banned. I dont think revenue=amount of users.

‘Fortnite’ Has Given Up 73 Million iOS Only Users In Order To Fight Against Apple

Fortnite is giving up a ton in order to pursue a long and expensive fight against Apple.

www.forbes.com

 

[Caayn]

Sometimes I wonder if expanding the dynamic resolution range (by lowering the resolution floor) would help the Series X version at least match the PS5 version in performance.

It would be extremely disappointing if it was that easy and devs choose occasional drops instead. A res difference of 1800p and 2016p is only noticeable on ~2X+ zooms.

I wonder what's the real cause. Maybe it's placebo, all in my head, but it seems like this since the PS4 Pro and Xbox one X, with games that utilize DRS, where Playstation would have better performance at the cost of DRS resolution while Xbox would have a higher DRS resolution at the cost of performance.

Is there a difference in how GNM(X) and DX work that causes this, that causes Xbox to react slower? Or is it simply developers that prioritize FPS on one platform and resolution on the other?

 

[Flappy Pannus]

The overlay has a frame time graph which shows consistent spikes every time he performs an action for the first time or looks at a new area. Takes quite a while for it to clear up.

Yeah, using hardware RT it never really does. There's a ton of brutal stutters. Like I said I don't think this is solely shader issues, I've played it for 30 minutes now and the stutters barely abate. There is no way there would be this many youtube videos and benchmarks of it before this patch that showed far more consistent performance if this was always the case. Think some patches will be in order.

 

[iroboto]

Sometimes I wonder if expanding the dynamic resolution range (by lowering the resolution floor) would help the Series X version at least match the PS5 version in performance.

It would be extremely disappointing if it was that easy and devs choose occasional drops instead. A res difference of 1800p and 2016p is only noticeable on ~2X+ zooms.

depends on what is causing the bottleneck. If it's not the compute side of things, then it doesn't matter really. All PS consoles since PS4 has had much stronger fixed function pipeline. Xbox since 1X has leaned heavily into compute which is a major driver for resolution since you can run more of the same shader in parallel, FF is responsible for everything else; this is generally speaking. Things may change as they move more FF functions to compute over time as we see with Nanite.

I suspect largely, for xbox consoles, it's just bad optimization. Comes with the territory of not being the lead console and having to share a large code base with PC - you just don't spend as much time optimizing it to run on the xbox configuration and you look for something that will run universally. It would not surprise me developers ran into memory shuffling issues on Xbox due to the split pool. If you're getting random drops, that could be a result of a shuffle. Or just unoptimized code.

 

[chris1515]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599714524973924354

 

[The-Nastiest]

Im wondering the size of the install base, theres no information on that. We got revenue which seems higher on playstation. How many players across each platform?

Seems there where over 110 million on ios alone before it got banned. I dont think revenue=amount of users.

‘Fortnite’ Has Given Up 73 Million iOS Only Users In Order To Fight Against Apple

Fortnite is giving up a ton in order to pursue a long and expensive fight against Apple.

www.forbes.com

You made several statements claiming that PC was bigger than consoles.

First, it was about money. Then when swiftly proved wrong, you switched it up to refer to player count and install base.

When asked to provide a link to back up your statements, you probably searched the whole internet and found nothing relevant regarding PC vs console install bases and posted something about mobile.

Now, what you are saying about install base may or may not be true, we don't know. But without a source, your points are baseless and just expose bias. You didn't lead readers to believe that you were "wondering" , you just stated things as if they were fact. Please debate in good faith.

To bring it back on topic we know that Sony has invested in Epic and we know that Xbox makes a lot of money in Fortnite with Epic. With those facts in mind, plus being a closed platform, it isn't crazy to assume that the console code gets special treatment and may get prioritized over other versions.

 

[see colon]

To bring it back on topic we know that Sony has invested in Epic and we know that Xbox makes a lot of money in Fortnite with Epic. With those facts in mind, plus being a closed platform, it isn't crazy to assume that the console code gets special treatment and may get prioritized over other versions.

Isn't part of Epic's efforts to make Fortnite playable on iOS outside of the app store the deal they have with Microsoft to make Fortnite stream via Xcloud for free. It's the only game that streams without a Gamepass sub isn't it?

 

[The-Nastiest]

Isn't part of Epic's efforts to make Fortnite playable on iOS outside of the app store the deal they have with Microsoft to make Fortnite stream via Xcloud for free. It's the only game that streams without a Gamepass sub isn't it?

I am not aware of any deal between Epic and Microsoft. That may be true, I don't know.

If true, Xbox Cloud Gaming runs on consoles in the cloud. To maintain that code, the Xbox version of the game would benefit from increased development priority.

 

[PSman1700]

You made several statements claiming that PC was bigger than consoles.

First, it was about money. Then when swiftly proved wrong, you switched it up to refer to player count and install base.

When asked to provide a link to back up your statements, you probably searched the whole internet and found nothing relevant regarding PC vs console install bases and posted something about mobile.

Now, what you are saying about install base may or may not be true, we don't know. But without a source, your points are baseless and just expose bias. You didn't lead readers to believe that you were "wondering" , you just stated things as if they were fact. Please debate in good faith.

To bring it back on topic we know that Sony has invested in Epic and we know that Xbox makes a lot of money in Fortnite with Epic. With those facts in mind, plus being a closed platform, it isn't crazy to assume that the console code gets special treatment and may get prioritized over other versions.

I ment install-base from the beginning. Care to quote where i said something else?
The reference to mobile (ios) was because simply stating revenue=install base isnt always accurate.

I’d be surprised if there’d be more players on ps regarding fortnite, though i can imagine it being the case, its a more casual oriented version of pubg (where BR stsrted).

Theres no bias since i have never cared for Fortnite and i never will, i do think the ue5.1 implementation is impressive and is the sole reason i installed it yesterday.

Its not about ’pc is bigger than consoles’ its about Fortnite’s install base which i found surprising there would be pso stutter problems still, even if minor.
Not that surprising since Epic dropped over 70million gamers on the ios platform alone. And then i an to my original point again, its crazy that epic couldnt release Fortnite in a somewhat better state with what i assume is a very large, if not the largest playerbase.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I doubt there’s a lack of resources put into optimizing fortnite/UE for pc. PC is the platform for the editor and still a huge platform with all of the other UE games and customers using it to develop games.

 

[The-Nastiest]

I ment install-base from the beginning. Care to quote where i said something else?

PC makes enough money, probably more than a singular console platform does in special with these kinds of games.

Im happy to conclude this discussion now and get back on track with more technical discussions regarding DF videos.

Thank you!

 

[see colon]

I am not aware of any deal between Epic and Microsoft. That may be true, I don't know.

If true, Xbox Cloud Gaming runs on consoles in the cloud. To maintain that code, the Xbox version of the game would benefit from increased development priority.

Play Fortnite on iOS, iPadOS, Android Phones and Tablets, and Windows PC with Xbox Cloud Gaming for Free - Xbox Wire

As part of our mission to bring the joy and community of gaming to players wherever they are and to make gaming more accessible to people around the world, I’m excited to announce that we’ve partnered with Epic Games to make Fortnite available on supported browser-enabled devices for free with...

news.xbox.com

As part of our mission to bring the joy and community of gaming to players wherever they are and to make gaming more accessible to people around the world, I’m excited to announce that we’ve partnered with Epic Games to make Fortnite available on supported browser-enabled devices for free with Xbox Cloud Gaming (Beta) in 26 countries.

Not sure if money changed hands but there's clearly an agreement.

 

[PSman1700]

Im happy to conclude this discussion now and get back on track with more technical discussions regarding DF videos.

Thank you!

With these types of games. Hence i was somewhat surprised. Pubg’s are very different. Not it matters, Fortnite pc is big enough for devs to care about that version.

Any sources on install-base on pc?

 

[Cyan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599714524973924354

that's why I tried to say when talking about RT here, that the main difference to me is that the light looked "logical". Like your brain says "this doesn't look like your typical game". In fact you can try most games from 2020 and before with a modern console or mid-tier and above GPU and play them at 4K 120fps that you aren't going to feel impressed by the lighting, it's just like everyday stuff. Metro Exodus is a game that I completed from start to finish with RT max settings and art style aside, the game looked more like a real life comic. With RT off the look is completely different.

 

[Scott_Arm]

@Cyan Yes, it's a weird thing seeing such natural looking lighting in games. I saw the video of the Witcher 3 ray tracing, and it's amazing how much proper lighting improves that game that is otherwise quite outdated looking at this point. I think Fortnite demonstrates it really well. You have really nice shadowing and lighting, and it doesn't have that artificial sharp look because there's a smooth rolloff from bright areas to shadowed areas. Also, the virtualized shadow maps fix one of the biggest visual problems in the game, which is shadow pop-in. I always used shadows off because the performance hit of high shadows sucked, and anything but the max had severe shadow pop-in issues that were incredibly distracting. The new virtualized shadow maps seem to stretch to your full draw distance, and I don't see any pop in, even on medium.

 

[Cyan]

whatever agreement AMD has with these studios seems to indicate they're far more restrictive with adding DLSS as opposed to Nvidia sponsored titles adding FSR.

after having to "eat FSR2"-the worst implementation of FSR2 I've ever seen- in Warhammer Darktide and how AMD hardware aren't fully supporting RT as nVidia does, also 'cos they use DXR 1.1 (slowing down other implementations) instead of DXR 1.0 -the recommended approach- which runs much faster on nVidia hardware -and now Intel too-, while I just hope that AMD increases their GPU sales this generation -it's likely to happen- I also hope that nVidia come to their senses and launch their hardware at a reasonable price so they win this generation once again.

 

[Subtlesnake]

after having to "eat FSR2"-the worst implementation of FSR2 I've ever seen- in Warhammer Darktide and how AMD hardware aren't fully supporting RT as nVidia does, also 'cos they use DXR 1.1 (slowing down other implementations) instead of DXR 1.0 -the recommended approach- which runs much faster on nVidia hardware -and now Intel too-, while I just hope that AMD increases their GPU sales this generation -it's likely to happen- I also hope that nVidia come to their senses and launch their hardware at a reasonable price so they win this generation once again.

Are there any examples of games running "slowly" on Nvidia hardware due to using DXR 1.1?

 

[BRiT]

Hands on with The Witcher 3's next-gen update: PS5 and Series X tested

Tom Morgan introduces the tech enhancements to The Witcher 3's Next-Gen Update, a free release that boosts graphical fi…

www.eurogamer.net

Hands on with The Witcher 3's next-gen update: PS5 and Series X tested​

Plus more info on the Series S and PC versions.

The Witcher 3's next-gen update arrives on 14th December, at last giving the game a proper release on PS5, Series X and Series S. And equally, it enhances the PC version with a suite of long-awaited upgrades including ray-tracing support. Seven years after the original release, after multiple expansions and a successful Netflix adaptation, this update is the perfect opportunity to craft an ultimate version for longterm fans and newcomers alike. And I'm glad to report, after flying to developer CDPR's offices in Warsaw last week to go hands on with the PS5 and Series X versions, this revitalised release very much looks to be delivering on that promise.

While we weren't allowed direct capture at the event, we were provided with footage of the first 15 minutes of the new update running on PS5 and Series X, in both their performance and RT modes - more than enough for a preview ahead of a full breakdown closer to release. As always with preview capture, it's worth stressing all of this is still being optimised and the final release may be improved further.

 

[iroboto]

We are finally approaching the first generation of RT games; Hybrid RT games, And a handful of RT only games, really lucky that 4A jumped on that one. Expecting all their titles going forward to be RT only as well.

But hybrid RT as the main focus is my expectation for the remaining of this generation.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Supposedly on PS5 and series x the fps still drops in the city but how much we won't know until full release.

Feels like they could have left this video to the full rollout tbh but eh