Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2022]

[BRiT]

If a developer is making a game for the xbox series x and is designing around the CPU well the series s cpu is the same thing at what 200mhz less ? When you look at the gpu both gpus are the same generation and support the same feature set.

It becomes a bit more interesting if you consider what games can actually access, as the PS5 has higher system reservations for CPU than Series X and S [6.5 Cores vs 7 Cores]. Though there might be a tiny bit more overhead on Xbox due to the hypervisor layer.

Series X = 7 CPU Cores @ 3.8 GHz (SMT Disabled)
Series X = 14 CPU Threads @ 3.6 GHz (SMT Enabled)
Series S = 7 CPU Cores @ 3.6 GHz (SMT Disabled)
PS5 = 6.5 CPU Cores @ 3.5 GHz MAX, can throttle lower
Series S = 14 CPU Threads @ 3.4 GHz (SMT Enabled)

 

[eastmen]

It becomes a bit more interesting if you consider what games can actually access, as the PS5 has higher system reservations for CPU than Series X and S [6.5 Cores vs 7 Cores]. Though there might be a tiny bit more overhead on Xbox due to the hypervisor layer.

Series X = 7 CPU Cores @ 3.8 GHz (SMT Disabled)
Series X = 14 CPU Threads @ 3.6 GHz (SMT Enabled)
Series S = 7 CPU Cores @ 3.6 GHz (SMT Disabled)
PS5 = 6.5 CPU Cores @ 3.5 GHz MAX, can throttle lower
Series S = 14 CPU Threads @ 3.4 GHz (SMT Enabled)

Yes there are so many nuances to these systems

People see the raw numbers and think wow thats a huge thing but fail to take into account these small changes inside the systems. Also fail to take into account system requirements on the pc

Look at Callisto protocol . It's minimum requirements are an I3-560 Phenom 2 x4 with a radeon rx 580 and gtx 1060 with 4 gigs of system ram . They are able to make this game work on such a wide amount of hardware. It still looks great and that phenom processor is what 13 years old ? I mean just think about all the generation of hardware changes from phenom to bulldozer to zen to zen 4 . From radeon rx 580 to vega to rdna to rdna 2 and now 3. nvidia has also had big changes . When you looking at that the differences from the xbox series s to the xbox series x is nothing.

There are such strange narratives. If people want to know what holds games back its time and money not hardware. With enough time the top of the line hardware is forgoten junk.

Just look at start citizen. Game was touted as using pc hardware and it could never run on a console. the hardware they talked about 10 years ago at the kickstarter is barely used by anyone and current gen consoles are far and a way better than that hardware. We may even get a mid gen refresh or even a next gen console before the game actually releases.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It becomes a bit more interesting if you consider what games can actually access, as the PS5 has higher system reservations for CPU than Series X and S [6.5 Cores vs 7 Cores]. Though there might be a tiny bit more overhead on Xbox due to the hypervisor layer.

Series X = 7 CPU Cores @ 3.8 GHz (SMT Disabled)
Series X = 14 CPU Threads @ 3.6 GHz (SMT Enabled)
PS5 = 6.5 CPU Cores @ 3.5 GHz MAX, can throttle lower

PS5's CPU only runs with SMT enabled so the only way to look at this is:

Series X = 7 CPU Cores @ 3.8 GHz (SMT Disabled)
Series X = 14 CPU Threads @ 3.6 GHz (SMT Enabled)
PS5 = 13 CPU threads @ 3.5 Ghz (SMT Enabled, CPU can throttle lower than 3.5 Ghz)

 

[PSman1700]

PS5 between RTX 2070 to 2070S in raw raster. Xbox around RTX2080 it seems. Its almost exactly according to their specs (consoles running mostly medium settings).

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'm glad they went back and patched performance. Going below 30 was seriously a bummer. But on the flip side this video kinda dashed the idea people were pushing about the game not being able to hit 60fps on console. It feels like they launched with a quality mode(30fps 1440p) and an intermediate mode (40fps) but no performance mode. (1080p)

I may be getting what Alex said wrong but with a few nips and tucks it seems like PS5 and Xbox could both get to a decently playable 60 at 1080p especially with VRR

 

[PSman1700]

I'm glad they went back and patched performance. Going below 30 was seriously a bummer. But on the flip side this video kinda dashed the idea people were pushing about the game not being able to hit 60fps on console. It feels like they launched with a quality mode(30fps 1440p) and an intermediate mode (40fps) but no performance mode. (1080p)

I may be getting what Alex said wrong but with a few nips and tucks it seems like PS5 and Xbox could both get to a decently playable 60 at 1080p especially with VRR

The developers decide for the console users what they think the game should be played. On PC you can alter and tweak the settings to get a near 60fps target if not solid 60 with equal matching hardware.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The developers decide for the console users what they think the game should be played. On PC you can alter and tweak the settings to get a near 60fps target if not solid 60 with equal matching hardware.

That's true. But they did at launch already have options and not just one mode. Might as well go further with it if they could feasibly push it

 

[Cyan]

Xsx around 20% faster than ps5 in line with the specs difference.

what impressed me the most is how DLSS is like black magic. Reconstructing the pixels from native 1080p to 4K, it looks way superior than the TAAU (edited) upscaling from native 1440p found on the PS5 and XSX.

 

[PSman1700]

what impressed me the most is how DLSS is like black magic. Reconstructing the pixels from native 1080p to 4K, it looks way superior than the checkerboard upscaling from native 1440p found on the PS5 and XSX.

The technology, the hardware, would have done the consoles very good had it been present.

 

[Inuhanyou]

what impressed me the most is how DLSS is like black magic. Reconstructing the pixels from native 1080p to 4K, it looks way superior than the checkerboard upscaling from native 1440p found on the PS5 and XSX.

What? When was it ever said consoles use checkerboarding? Isn't it an inhouse upscaling solution unique to the studio?

 

[Cyan]

What? When was it ever said consoles use checkerboarding? Isn't it an inhouse upscaling solution unique to the studio?

TAAU then?

 

[Cyan]

The technology, the hardware, would have done the consoles very good had it been present.

consoles fatally came early, when given the Covid-19 it was irrelevant. Most doomed console generation to date.

On a different note, I purchased the game at launch date on pc gamepass, but I didn't even touch it. I am waiting to test the waters when they publish the Raytracing patch -I am sure they will enable XeSS by then, and if not, you can always cheat the game with that FSR 2.1 mod, although I'd prefer native support by far tbh, if not it'd be so disappointing-.

 

[cwjs]

what impressed me the most is how DLSS is like black magic. Reconstructing the pixels from native 1080p to 4K, it looks way superior than the TAAU (edited) upscaling from native 1440p found on the PS5 and XSX.

Is the console version doing reconstruction? If it is, it's something very conservative, the image is very stable and has very little ghosting iirc. DLSS obviously resolves a much smoother image, but introduces noticable motion artifacts.

 

[PSman1700]

Is the console version doing reconstruction? If it is, it's something very conservative, the image is very stable and has very little ghosting iirc. DLSS obviously resolves a much smoother image, but introduces noticable motion artifacts.

TAAU i think?

 

[cwjs]

TAAU i think?

You're right, I found that spot on the video, there's clearly some (not great in the case of the foliage) reconstruction happening, dlss looks much better in motion in this shot.

 

[Cyan]

You're right, I found that spot on the video, there's clearly some (not great in the case of the foliage) reconstruction happening, dlss looks much better in motion in this shot.

foliage aside, the still pics don't make DLSS justice. The petals and the bird can't be described with words when TAAU is on. When in motion with DLSS on you can actually see that those are petals and a bird.

DLSS is god. I'd swear that even if the game ran at 4K native res it couldn't beat DLSS performance.

 

[Remij]

So I've been playing Sackboy, and after starting a new game with the newest patch to check some things out, I noticed that the game has peculiar issue with a stutter that happens as you approach levels and shops on the world map. I've done some testing and found out that the game has the issue specifically when an Xbox One controller is plugged in. When I plug in my Dualsense controller, it's smooth. I did all sorts of testing with various resolutions, vsync, fps limiter in game, all sorts of settings.. and figured out it was a controller issue. Steam input was also disabled to rule that out.

I made a quick video showcasing it. You can see in the bottom right corner that it's an Xbox controller connected as it shows the "B" button... and you can see as I approach and leave the level select.. the game will hitch. Then part way through I disable the Xbox controller and then connect my Dualsense, and it's smooth (still a TINY little frame-bumb) but essentially unnoticeable in comparison. Then I plug the Xbox controller back in and it happens again.

So it seems like this game has an issue with xinput then? Does anyone else have this issue with their Xbox controllers? For the record all testing was done connected over USB, I haven't tested wireless, and I also tested with keyboard controls and it happens with there too, although the hitch is slightly less pronounced. So the Dualsense is the only controller that works smoothly for me with this game.

I'm going to send a report to the devs and hopefully they check it out and fix it.

 

[Cyan]

talking of DLSS and stuff, PC Gaming Wiki has published a list of games supporting modern upscaling and reconstruction techniques, even unofficial ones.

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_games_that_support_high-fidelity_upscaling

DLSS is of course the most used and the most advanced.

That being said, I hope devs start supporting FSR 2 and XeSS too on all their games with DLSS. For certain people they are much better for games to add over DLSS. It helps out a larger portion of the people that actually need a boost.

 

[pjbliverpool]

So I've been playing Sackboy, and after starting a new game with the newest patch to check some things out, I noticed that the game has peculiar issue with a stutter that happens as you approach levels and shops on the world map. I've done some testing and found out that the game has the issue specifically when an Xbox One controller is plugged in. When I plug in my Dualsense controller, it's smooth. I did all sorts of testing with various resolutions, vsync, fps limiter in game, all sorts of settings.. and figured out it was a controller issue. Steam input was also disabled to rule that out.

I made a quick video showcasing it. You can see in the bottom right corner that it's an Xbox controller connected as it shows the "B" button... and you can see as I approach and leave the level select.. the game will hitch. Then part way through I disable the Xbox controller and then connect my Dualsense, and it's smooth (still a TINY little frame-bumb) but essentially unnoticeable in comparison. Then I plug the Xbox controller back in and it happens again.

So it seems like this game has an issue with xinput then? Does anyone else have this issue with their Xbox controllers? For the record all testing was done connected over USB, I haven't tested wireless, and I also tested with keyboard controls and it happens with there too, although the hitch is slightly less pronounced. So the Dualsense is the only controller that works smoothly for me with this game.

I'm going to send a report to the devs and hopefully they check it out and fix it.

Excellent find and analysis! Hopefully the devs will take notice.

 

[Below2D]

Might be the most impressive re-release I've ever seen. From Grove Street Games no less.