Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2022]

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LOL. I mean if this the future where the cost of silicon is so high gpu manufacturers are going high freq silicon paired with massive cooling. I doubt newly released consoles are ever going to come close to modern discrete cards again. The cost of shrinking isn’t getting cheaper while the transistion to smaller silicon is taking longer.
I was wondering that from a post about what it'll take to get 4K120 high quality RT on consoles. I was thinking 'Moore's Law has ended' and then checked out die sizes, but they haven't massively increased the past few generations of GPUs where I was expecting all performance to come from bigger silicon (although I might not be comparing the same thing). Lithography has progressed still. But then you have these massive cards, and I'm guessing the limiting factor is elsewhere? Like, sure, the dies are 400 mm^2 but the heat is bonkers and the rest of the packaging huge?

Can anyone spell out for me where we are in terms of lithographic progression and limiting factors on GPU costs and power going forwards? Is a 'next gen' console in the next 5 years going to need to be twice the size and 4x the power consumption? Is it going to be 10 years, or 12, until chip manufacturing can actually shirnk down to get 'next gen' into a current-gen sized box? Or are we going to have to wait for a revolution in computing strategy?

Hmmm, is there a DF investigative article here? Seems some stats could compare high end PC GPUs die sizes and thermos with consoles over the years to see if there's a trend.
 
I was wondering that from a post about what it'll take to get 4K120 high quality RT on consoles. I was thinking 'Moore's Law has ended' and then checked out die sizes, but they haven't massively increased the past few generations of GPUs where I was expecting all performance to come from bigger silicon (although I might not be comparing the same thing). Lithography has progressed still. But then you have these massive cards, and I'm guessing the limiting factor is elsewhere? Like, sure, the dies are 400 mm^2 but the heat is bonkers and the rest of the packaging huge?

Can anyone spell out for me where we are in terms of lithographic progression and limiting factors on GPU costs and power going forwards? Is a 'next gen' console in the next 5 years going to need to be twice the size and 4x the power consumption? Is it going to be 10 years, or 12, until chip manufacturing can actually shirnk down to get 'next gen' into a current-gen sized box? Or are we going to have to wait for a revolution in computing strategy?

Hmmm, is there a DF investigative article here? Seems some stats could compare high end PC GPUs die sizes and thermos with consoles over the years to see if there's a trend.
I don't think the issue is that we are no longer seeing big density improvements with new processes. But rather that the cost is rapidly increasing so that we will probably soon reach a point where the cost/transistor stays constant or even increases. So then with a node shrink you would be able to double the number of transistors for a given die size, but silicon costs would double too.

The solution for that is just to rely on clock increases and architectural improvements, pushing a given chip closer to the limit of its voltage/frequency curve. With RDNA 3, we should get a better idea of what would be available to Microsoft/Sony in a similar transistor budget to the XSX/PS5.
 
Big stuff to cover in the coming weeks. A Plague Tale: Requiem is coming out tomorrow and is a performance hog. Uncharted Legacy of Thieves Collection on Wednesday should be fun. They may also do Sackboy since it has pretty good rendering techniques and RT on PC. Maybe an analysis of Persona 5 on Switch as well? Then by the time they're done, we'll be in November and AMD will announce RDNA 3 on the 3rd. God Of War Ragnarok's embargo will be lifted on the same day. The week after, the game will be released. Then on November 16th, we got the 4080. Finally, on the 18th, we got Miles Morales on PC. There's more but I'll stop there.

Busy days ahead for the DF crew.
 
Big stuff to cover in the coming weeks. A Plague Tale: Requiem is coming out tomorrow and is a performance hog. Uncharted Legacy of Thieves Collection on Wednesday should be fun. They may also do Sackboy since it has pretty good rendering techniques and RT on PC. Maybe an analysis of Persona 5 on Switch as well? Then by the time they're done, we'll be in November and AMD will announce RDNA 3 on the 3rd. God Of War Ragnarok's embargo will be lifted on the same day. The week after, the game will be released. Then on November 16th, we got the 4080. Finally, on the 18th, we got Miles Morales on PC. There's more but I'll stop there.

Busy days ahead for the DF crew.

They may need more for the PC crew i think.
 
They may need more for the PC crew i think.
hope Alex and cia won't get sleepless nights. That being said, I'd want some other not so recent games to be retested with RT on -say RE2 Remake, although DF and many people didn't like the patch- running on a A770 for instance, and a DXVK article on how to get it to work with as many games as possible on a A770 -they say it's a game changer for this particular GPU-, and if it also somewhat benefits nVidia or AMD GPUs. Dreaming is free.

On a different note, 8K TVs are going to be banned by the European Union.

 
Ugh. Remember when people were begging for devs to abandon Xbox One and PS4 and give us 30FPS games on PS5/Series so we could see the pretty graphics? Those people got their wish. Now lets get back to last gen games that run at 120hz on modern hardware please.
Why do people keep bringing up this argument for this game? Every aspect of this games technical makeup other than RT are mediocre by last gen standards.
 
Ugh. Remember when people were begging for devs to abandon Xbox One and PS4 and give us 30FPS games on PS5/Series so we could see the pretty graphics? Those people got their wish. Now lets get back to last gen games that run at 120hz on modern hardware please.
The game didnt get the proper next gen treatment people were expecting. It's on similar levels to any other game that offers different modes, but giving you only the 30fps option.
 
hmmm, I've seen a video of the game running on a RTX 4090 which was shared here in the forum, and technically wise it looked good to me. From what I read the gameplay is lacklustre but I didn't expect it to be technically bad.
Its Rocksteady's fault for raising the bar too high with Arkham Knight :yep2:
Those Arkham fanboys.......

Jokes aside, the work on Gotham Knights appears to me to be the work of a less inexperienced (probably smaller too?) yet still talented team.
Its a shame because Arkham Knight did everything so well, and if the same work went into this for next gen it would have been a feast.

It is a bit painful when it is obvious hard work has been put into something, but still cant live up to expectations and gets heavily criticized

Really impressive though how awesomely well Arkham holds to this day and it was one of the first AAA games to appear on previous gen consoles.
Which also reminds me of Infamous, because that game also looked incredibly good on PS4 and in many aspects also holds well.
 
Ugh. Remember when people were begging for devs to abandon Xbox One and PS4 and give us 30FPS games on PS5/Series so we could see the pretty graphics? Those people got their wish. Now lets get back to last gen games that run at 120hz on modern hardware please.
False alternative, this game for sure is not example of pushing curentgen to limits as it often looks worse than old arkham knigt. Crossgen should die long ago as we are 2 years into currentgen but that doesnt mean that incompetent work will bring great results automaticaly just because ita not crossgen.
 
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