Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2021]
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Don't you mean to say "PS4 enhanced BC game running on PS5 compared to the PC port of the PS4 version"
Or is that getting a bit too ridiculous?
Gameception. A film by Chris Nolan, in cinemas 2023.
I think you’ve described BC+ as being the exact same thing as Gen9Aware. The only difference between the two being that Gen9Aware games have more settings that can be overriden.
MS still call these Gen9Aware titles as being X|S enhanced, when technically they are not as there is no recompile and still uses the same code the older XBO paths would use. Gen9Aware titles have specific enchantments that only run on Series X|S consoles, but they are not true binaries as we can run Gen9Aware titles on external hard drives, whereas true Series binaries must run on the approved nvme ssds
I’m not seeing a large difference here except explicit naming conventions or lack of by the companies themselves.
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Pc is it's own version though with other enhancements.
It's handled via the higher level DirectX runtime APIs.
Which is just as hobbled by it's PS4 roots as the PS5 version is.
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PS5 BC3 mode and Xbox Gen9Aware sound similar, the game are targeting lastgen hardware but these games have a way to detect if they are running on a current gen console and can then leverage the higher clocks to deliver higher frame rates It wouldn't surprise me if Xbox allows more leverage of Series S|X hardware because their entire compatibility strategy is about virtualising and abstracting software from hardware whereas Sony's solution was deep hardware compatibility at APU logic level.
As we know games are driving some graphics functions by just punching data direct into GPU command buffers and if the behaviour (GCN to RDNA features modifications) the games is likely going to crash.
Don't be yourself ridiculous. The problem is not that we, hardcore gamer people, don't understand what Alex was talking about. The problem is Digital Foundry have 1.15 million subscribers and that video is not intended to geek people on geek forums, but to those one million people.
And for them calling this version the "PS5 version" is totally misleading when it's actually a PS4 version running in BC+ mode on PS5. As Alex already said that it was running via BC, the right short name should have being "PS4 version", not PS5 version. Some could think Alex was purposefully naming it that way in order to mislead those people.
Either that or Alex is still not realizing most of the youtubers watching DF won't be aware of the complex details about PS4, BC, BC+ or native PS5 version and that he should be very careful how he repeatedly names it in his video.
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I think it's really nice that Bend took the effort of increasing visual fidelity in this game's PC port.
Allowing higher texture size and distance LOD would have been a low-effort, low-hanging fruit. But implementing SSGI could be an indicator on what to expect from Bend's future titles.
I want the PC version to be a commercial success to increase the likelihood of getting a Days Gone sequel. That thing with the object motion becoming desynchronized with the framerate does seems like a big problem though. Let's hope Bend solves it quickly.
This is a PS4 Pro game, meaning it's limited to the PS4 Pro's RAM amount, PS4 Pro's GPU featureset, PS4 Pro's CPU featureset and PS4 Pro's I/O.
The PS5 is simply running the PS4 Pro code at twice the frequency. There are no higher resolution textures, no dynamic resolution to take advantage of, no temporal AA that could indeed translate the higher framerate into higher IQ. There is no PS5 version, nor is there any reason to call it so in the context of the video (IQ settings and features, no framerate measurement on the console version).
Had Bend decided to develop a low-effort PS5 version that did nothing but run the exact same code but with DualSense support then I'd consider it a PS5 game and "blame" Blend for not going the extra mile.
That is simply not the case.
Allowing higher texture size and distance LOD would have been a low-effort, low-hanging fruit. But implementing SSGI could be an indicator on what to expect from Bend's future titles.
I want the PC version to be a commercial success to increase the likelihood of getting a Days Gone sequel. That thing with the object motion becoming desynchronized with the framerate does seems like a big problem though. Let's hope Bend solves it quickly.
The "PS5 version" term is mentioned in the video several times.
This is a PS4 Pro game, meaning it's limited to the PS4 Pro's RAM amount, PS4 Pro's GPU featureset, PS4 Pro's CPU featureset and PS4 Pro's I/O.
The PS5 is simply running the PS4 Pro code at twice the frequency. There are no higher resolution textures, no dynamic resolution to take advantage of, no temporal AA that could indeed translate the higher framerate into higher IQ. There is no PS5 version, nor is there any reason to call it so in the context of the video (IQ settings and features, no framerate measurement on the console version).
Had Bend decided to develop a low-effort PS5 version that did nothing but run the exact same code but with DualSense support then I'd consider it a PS5 game and "blame" Blend for not going the extra mile.
That is simply not the case.
Off course. But a bit less still
Agreed, surprisingly the two are very close in feature set. I think the only major difference here is that 120Hz refresh rate, which MS had the foresight in 2017 to see for next gen and included that as an option for XBO. I look at BC+ and Gen9Aware like the AMD/Nvidia control panels, where you can leave it as 'Use Application Settings' or some form of override. And 120Hz is just on the list for MS as well as some unconventional supported resolutions.
MS would have called Day's Gone Series X | S enhanced for sure, as that's typically the main focal point for the enhanced water mark on titles: resolution or frame rate bump; outside of these Gen9Aware has limited ability to change the game further. Some serious BC changes would be required to use high resolution textures etc. But those tend to be swan song BC compatible upgrades.
It's not Alex's job to make that communication clear, that's Sony's job.
Sony has not yet marketed or defined what BC+ is. So it's open to interpretation.
Because MS would have called this a Series enhanced title (COD:WZ, Sea of Thieves, Ori, Halo MCC) and they have done this many times for many of their titles where the only bump is frame rate; no one has ever questioned the language around it. They are all exactly the same upgrade we see here with Day's Gone. Framerate Improvement, Resolution bump. Most of them just framerate.
The audience for this video is for PC users looking to buy Day's Gone.
Xbox Series X, Series S Optimized games list (4K, 120 FPS, Ray Tracing) | Windows Central
It just really comes down to how one company has embraced it and another has not.
Where was the outrage when DF released and called the games the PS5 version here? (all these videos have PS5 listed in top left corner)
- Days Gone on PS5 - Super Smooth at 60FPS - But Can It Survive The Horde? - YouTube
- God of War on PS5 - A Flawless 60fps Upgrade? Patch 1.35 Deep Dive! - YouTube
- Ghost of Tsushima: PS5 vs PS4 Pro - The 60fps Difference! - YouTube
- Cyberpunk 2077 PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S - A Huge Improvement Over Last-Gen Consoles - YouTube
If the next-gen patch is not announced, I don't see any point arguing over semantics of what a PS5 version is or isn't.
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You're correct that this video is aimed at Digital Foundries less tech geek audience than the patrons of this forum. That's exactly why he shouldn't have to cater for tech geeks who get defensive over the minutia and semantics of how to describe different backwards compatibility modes.
In the real world, all that matters is that this is the version of Days Gone that you can play on the PS5 (the best console version of the game) and therefore, it is the PS5 version of the game. That's what actually matters. We can always re-look at the comparison if there is ever proper remake for the PS5 (and perhaps the PC at the same time). Until then, it simply doesn't matter to anyone that actually wants to play the game.
Sure but DF shouldn't create confusion, at all. They actually do some extensive communication in the case of Xbox games. With Xbox One games running on Xbox Series they are very precise with their statements.
In the FPS Boost article about some XB1 games running at double the framerate on Xbox series there was never any misleading statement. The author was always very specific it was only the Xbox one game running on Xbox Series.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2021-fps-boost-skyrim-fallout-4-fallout-76
Look how he is very careful here, there is no possible confusion and for that he needs to use a convoluted and pedantic sentence:
Imagine if he had said instead: "The Xbox Series X version of Fallout 4 runs at 1080p and 60fps". From some perspective it's not technically wrong and bonus, you get a short sentence. But it's obviously a very misleading statement and it shouldn't be written in such an article that will be read by tons of people.
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I disagree. Sony never claimed to have a PS5 version of Days Gone, so Sony made their communication as clear as possible. It's the DF video that repeatedly mentions the term "PS5 version".
It's IMO an unnecessarily misleading term to use, no matter what the intentions (or probably lack of thereof) were.
Regardless, as suggested above I already did my part by leaving a comment on the youtube video (though I think it's more likely that @Dictator will notice a 3 page conversation about it here than a couple of comments in the YT video).
It's also clear to me that no one is going to change their perspective on this, so I too suggest to just drop the subject.
snc
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haven't watch yet but hope df clearly said its bc mode with patch uncapping frames ;d edit: yes, its clearly state ! ;d
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Gonna be completely honest people - I lack the empathy to understand the level of discussion (how many posts?) or outrage (sigh) regarding my "apparent failing to explicitly remind the audience that the being run on PS5 is a BC patch game." For one, I say in the video it is using a BC patch version. Secondly, we already had a video on this game and its PS5 patch. We tend to not constantly re-explain things and at some point we assume a certain level of pre-knowledge among our viewers: for example I do not re-explain what SSAO, volumetric lighting, SSR or a variety of acronyms in this video and hold them for common DF viewer knowledge. Am I misrepresenting those things by not constantly explicitly stating what they are? And thirdly, it is the nature of the beast as to what money/time/investment Sony Bend were willing to make for the Playstation 5 specifically. DG running on PS5 is quite literally the PlayStation 5 version in that aspect.
I honestly see no reason to be upset.
I honestly see no reason to be upset.
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