Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

It worked great on every other full moon.

 

RSX? Cell? Those can scale video with two hands behind their backs. Hardware wasn't the problem. It was Sony's OS that was stupid to expect every dev to handle output compatibility entirely on their own.

 

I had to revisit the topic. PS3 did have something weird with it's scaler. At first they denied any access to it and then they only gave access to horizontal scaling.

https://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/16/1

 

RSX and hardware was the problem, it was broken. At one point there was talk of a lawsuit against NV but instead it became a big reason why NV is no longer a partner with Sony.

 

this video has a few months, but the people who made this are my heroes. A breath of fresh air when it comes to engines, it looks better than even the most expensive to make AAA game.

Also one of teh few games where I prefer to play at High or Ultra because they managed to make you feel as if you were there in the middle ages. Since most gaming environments are fantasy worlds, I dont mind toning down the graphics for framerates if need be, but this one just looks right, like you are in a typical village of the era. Looks so real to me, most buildings here, made of stone, are like that, they still keep that ancient, authentic feeling.



I think I am reaching the end of this game and I dont want it to end. :/

 

Honor also goes to id tech 7, trounces everything else out there in doom ethernal. Yes rdr2 and all but id tech 7 does more, in a more linear world ofc.

 

As well as Asobo's skills, it's a good advert for Quixel megatextures. I wonder how long they'll be available outside of UE now Epic own them?

 

do they actually own them? Hmmmm...., I searched info about Quixel and they say they are joining forces with Epic, but it doesnt sound as if they are purchasing them.

 

They bought them around November time.

https://venturebeat.com/2019/11/12/...-startup-quixel-to-make-games-more-realistic/

 

I am curious about a DF video I've seen recently.. How did you capture the HDR footage in the DF video about HDR?

Darn, wish Halo Reach (PC) implements HDR once and for all, as promised.
My favourite stage, the one where you are carrying the AI would look spectacular when you begin the stage and you are looking at the device with the AI inside.

HDR on PC is still in the early stages. You are used to HDR and its benefits so why not creating a video on how to setup HDR10 on the PC?
From truly certified monitors -many say HDR compatible and they aren't supported as HDR-, to what 10bit color depth (compared to 8bit or 6bit etc) is, HDR10 and stuff.

I compiled a bit of everything in this thread, with the best info I could find: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/curved-monitors-with-high-hz.61542/page-4

But I'm not a super technical person myself so I have a hard time explaining those things and what my eyes actually see. In your video it's obvious you are accustomed to HDR and which games implement it better and so on...
There are a lot of misconceptions, starting from manufacturers telling people their panel is HDR when it's not. Plus, you reach big masses of people.

 

Hold onto your hats, Richard is discussing DLSS as possible tech for the next switch whenever it arrives.

Fascinating results at lower resolutions.



This is really interesting stuff and not only DLSS for Nvidia, I believe the AMD RIS results were also very respectable from what I recall. I would not be surprised if the PS5 went in this direction, the logical next step from checkerboard, or a combination of the two.

 

haven't watched the video yet. But....how? DLSS is done in the raytracing cores of the new nVidia cards..

As for consoles, imo it's a technology they can only dream about. They dont have the nVidia hardware, but most of all the algorithm.

 

Well the idea is the new console will have volta as the base, but using the new Nvidia shield as an example as that offers "AI up scaling" on the marko chip that is in the new switch. Therefore it's compute not tensor powered.

I would assume the AI is more the learning in the data centre to tune the algorithm, the implementation can be in compute. I actually thought most early DLSS games used compute anyway and that was not so well received (not a pc games so take with a bucket load of salt)

 

It's run on the Tensor cores, not the RT; doesn't use RT at all. It could also be an okay fit for compute - by and large Tensor is good for learning, but not necessary for implementing neural networks, as I understand it.

 

Just because I am a stickler, AMD RIS does something vastly different than DLSS. It is merely an image sharpener, a smarter one, but nothing more. It cannot generate pixels, smooth lines, or do anything that image reconstruction like checkerboarding or DLSS will do. It actually increases aliasing.

We capture HDR footage with any video capture card, or video capture device that supports it. In my case, I have a PC capture card that can do 4K HDR 60.
The bigger problem though is editing that footage and making the workflow HDR. And even then, when we publish it, YT will play it alright in HDR, but its SDR tonemap is always different than that found in the real game. So people watching it in SDR on YT, are getting an "inaccurate" image.

I wish so too.

I could do that in the future and that is not a bad idea. But perhaps it is just me, but I have yet to actually be super enthralled with HDR for some reason. Perhaps it is because I just do not have an amazing HDR set.

Still, thanks for that compilation! I will look at it when I work on something with HDR in the future

 

Nope, I'm the same way. I think it's because noone has quite gotten HDR "right." For me, when I see it, it's either understated to where it doesn't look much different from good SDR lighting or it's overstated to make it "pop" more but then it comes across as looking unrealistic. I had high hopes for HDR, but I'm still waiting for something to really impress me with how well it matches realistic lighting. And so far, none really have.

I think part of it is also that developers still haven't figured out how to properly implement the transition from dimly lit indoor areas to brightly lit outdoor areas and vice versa with HDR. I would have thought this would have been easier to do than trying to accomplish the same feat in SDR, but I guess it must be tough, because no one is getting it right, IMO.

Perhaps if HDR stabilizes (standards and such) and if it becomes more prevalent with the next generation, we'll see something truly impressive. And when I say impressive I mean something that doesn't go, "LOOK AT ME, I'M IN HDR NOW" and instead something that you look at and don't notice because it all looks like how you expect it to look in real life.

Basically, I'll consider HDR to be good if I look at a scene in a game and at no point do I think to myself, "This looks like it's in HDR." or "This looks like it's in SDR." and instead I don't notice it because it all looks like how it should look.

Regards,
SB

 

It should indeed be easy, as you just wouldn't have to do anything. Have indoors darker and let the player's eyes adjust naturally. Then have it brighter outside and have the players eyes adjust. Okay, real life has a greater dynamic range than that and you'd need to scale the brightness somewhat, but it shouldn't be that hard and more than already tone-mapping HDR game rendering to an SDR screen.

 

True light levels cannot be used due to varying ambient conditions for the end user. Brightness must be normalized for a good viewing experience.

For example, metro exodus uses a very high dynamic range and when playing in an underground section of the game its nearly unplayable if you're playing in a well lit room. However, playing the same section in pitch black room on an oled the experience is transformative. Not everyone plays in a light controlled environment at all times. That's why the current diffuse white standard is 203 nits for hdr 10, vs 100 nits for sdr.

A great example of properly implemented hdr is dmc 5. The average brightness is normalized quite a bit, but the image has a very wide range. The game is fully playable in a bright room and the image simply becomes more 3d when playing in a pitch black room.

 

But isn't the ambient environment handled by calibrating your tv, and adjusting with the on screen display? It would be almost impossible for the game to handle the case where you're perceptively crushing black because your room is too bright. If you can't distinguish shades of grey in a bright environment, your brightness (black level) is too low. Essentially the oled or the LCD are receiving the same signal, and the display should adjust the output accordingly. I imagine a lot of people buy oleds and try to use them for hdr in bright rooms, but there's not a good choice because they're brightness limited and get their contrast from incredibly dark blacks that are more suited for dim to dark environments.