Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

[BillSpencer]

Looks like a clear win for series X!

 

[dorf]

So I have heard that series X and S support a super sampling mode for VRS - to give extra shading to an area on demand. But, I am not sure how it could or would be used.

Here's an example of VRS used to eliminate Moiré effect on a complex material:

 

[iroboto]

Here's an example of VRS used to eliminate Moiré effect on a complex material:

nice, that is quite interesting.

 

[function]

So I have heard that series X and S support a super sampling mode for VRS - to give extra shading to an area on demand. But, I am not sure how it could or would be used.

Maybe you could use the MSAA hardware? E.g. generate four regularly spaced subpixel positions, and generate more than one colour sub-pixel sample only where your VRS algorithm deemed it necessary (maybe on edges, or if a particular texture had high contrast changes over a particular area).

Sort of like supersampling on demand, rather than across everything.

 

[jlippo]

Maybe you could use the MSAA hardware? E.g. generate four regularly spaced subpixel positions, and generate more than one colour sub-pixel sample only where your VRS algorithm deemed it necessary (maybe on edges, or if a particular texture had high contrast changes over a particular area).

Sort of like supersampling on demand, rather than across everything.

VRS uses MSAA hardware, it allows more control for it. (select which subsamples are shaded.)

 

[Rurouni]

BC are mostly win for XsX (vs PS5) assuming that the game has a good One X mode. For games that only have basic PS4 and One version, PS5 should be better assuming it can run with boosted mode.
Personally I'm not really interested in XsX vs PS5 for BC games because it is very predictable. Just knowing that it runs well is good enough for me (especially true for PS5 since doing PS4 to PS5 BC is less straightforward than One to Series).

 

[function]

Here's an example of VRS used to eliminate Moiré effect on a complex material:

Just wanted to point out this should effectively end the argument that it's better for hardware not to have the ability to use VRS. It can be used to save performance for elsewhere, or to directly and efficiently target the most needed materials with increased quality. Brilliant.

There's a good reason why Nvidia, AMD, Intel and MS are implementing it. Like any technique in graphics it can be used well or less well.

 

[Dampf]

Here's an example of VRS used to eliminate Moiré effect on a complex material:

That's cool. DLSS introduces quite a lot of them in Watch Dogs Legion and Death Stranding.

I wonder if VRS can combined with DLSS for an even higher boost to framerates?

 

[scently]

Just wanted to point out this should effectively end the argument that it's better for hardware not to have the ability to use VRS. It can be used to save performance for elsewhere, or to directly and efficiently target the most needed materials with increased quality. Brilliant.

There's a good reason why Nvidia, AMD, Intel and MS are implementing it. Like any technique in graphics it can be used well or less well.

Indeed. I was quite surprised, pleasantly so, that The Coalition used it in the XSX/S rendition of Gears 5 and that it is already a much-improved implementation compared to the implementation in Gears Tactics on PC. From what I can tell it is implemented really well in Gears 5 and not obvious. I do wonder if they implemented it in the console version of Gears Tactics...

Anyway like you said, it is indeed better that XSX/S has VRS, ML extensions, and so on than to not have them as they would help make better and smarter use of the hardware.
I also think that in the long run, MS decision to wait to have these features will work out for graphics development across PC/Console development. I always found it weird how they keep launching their consoles out of step with Direct X. Launching with a fully DX12U compliant GPU will foster quicker and better uptake of these features and allow portability across PC/Consoles. I think the short-term issues they are facing as a result of this will bear fruit in the long run.

 

[RDGoodla]

What evidence do you have to suggest that the PC versions performance is also not negatively impacted in that scene by the patch? Surely the fairest way of comparing performance is on the same patch level across all systems. That level being the latest level since it's clearly how the game developers intend you to play the game, and how you will be playing the game if you have updated to the latest patch - as you should for stability reasons if nothing else.

This is what Digital Foundry can tell us. Does PC performance decrease the same amount in the latest version as in PS5 ver. 1.04?
If yes, then the comparison is right.

If no, for example only PS5 is negatively impacted in ver 1.04, then ver. 1.04 is not fully representative of PS5 performance.
Digital Foundry should use ver. 1.00 to compare PS5 & PC in this case.

 

[Karamazov]

hope we get the cyberpunk face off by next week-end !

 

[Deleted member 7537]

hope we get the cyberpunk face off by next week-end !

Aren't both versions running in back compat mode?

 

[mr magoo]

Aren't both versions running in back compat mode?

Yes XSX is running xbox one x version and ps 5 ps4 pro version afaik

 

[JPT]

Yes XSX is running xbox one x version and ps 5 ps4 pro version afaik

They where also to get a framerate and graphics boost patch day 1, right? Probably unlocking fps and enabling some more graphics settings?

 

[PSman1700]

Yes XSX is running xbox one x version and ps 5 ps4 pro version afaik

Most comparisons are therefore abit unintresting so far.
CP2077 will most likely be a very intresting and 'important' comparison between the consoles, atleast for those intrested in differences. They probably will be close enough. Parity is only good.....

 

[mr magoo]

Ahh yes performance mode

 

[Karamazov]

no proper next gen patch at launch, but still some upgrades over last gen consoles, like higher framerate and or resolution.

 

[liams]

This is what Digital Foundry can tell us. Does PC performance decrease the same amount in the latest version as in PS5 ver. 1.04?
If yes, then the comparison is right.

If no, for example only PS5 is negatively impacted in ver 1.04, then ver. 1.04 is not fully representative of PS5 performance.
Digital Foundry should use ver. 1.00 to compare PS5 & PC in this case.

gears tactics uses tier 1 vrs, while gears 5 uses tier 2. I would imagine first party is going to be using tier 2 from here on out.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

no proper next gen patch at launch, but still some upgrades over last gen consoles, like higher framerate and or resolution.

I've seen leaked footage of the PS4 version running on PS5 prior to any patches (i.e. whatever version of Cyberpunk was on the disc when it went gold about a month ago) and it's already running at ~60fps on PS5!

 

[Riddlewire]

I still don't know if BC mode on XSX|XSS means the CPU runs at 3.6, 3.8, or developer's choice, and how much that alters the thermals of the console.