Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by BRiT, Jan 1, 2020.

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  1. Insight

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    This game favors AMD cards, I wouldn't be surprised if it matches 2080S

    untitled-5.png
     
  2. BillSpencer

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    You know it's going to be good if they have to leave out 6800 :p

    Mod edit: Removed duplicate image to save me some scrollin’. -Pete
     
    #3002 BillSpencer, Dec 3, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2020
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  3. DavidGraham

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    In DX12 mode yes. Not in DX11 mode though.
     
  4. Unknown Soldier

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  5. chris1515

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    DX12 is the future and this is how the API for the future title.

    I expect the PS5 to run at 2070 Super or maybe a bit under because of the memory bandwidth. If the PS5 had 16 Gbps module and 512 GB/s of memory bandwidth I think the console would be able to run at 2080 level or maybe better in AC Valhalla.

    Imo this is the weakness of PS5 and no infinity cache to help here.
     
  6. Globalisateur

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    AFAIK no devs or insiders have ever complained about a potential bottleneck on PS5 architecture, including a lack of bandwidth. Quite the contrary actually, they all seem to praise PS5 hardware since last year without restrictions.
     
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  7. chris1515

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    But at the end there is the spec and memory bandwidth is very important. I am surprised PS5 can compete with XSX because of this not because of PS5 continuous boost or 52 Cus or 12 Tflops.
     
  8. techuse

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    This game doesn't have a DX11 mode. Seems like DX11 is not far from being be a dead API for multiplatform games at this point.
     
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  9. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
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    Bandwidth will only limit you if you can over saturate it. If you are limited somewhere else, you won't ever be held back by bandwidth. This isn't a knock on PS5, you are always going to be limited by something, and PS5 looks to be more of a pipe than a bottle, where all parts are designed to have about the same amount of throughput so by and large, one part isn't holding back another.
     
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  10. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    It's weird that DirectX 12 feels "new" but it was announced six years ago (2014) and released five years ago (2015). :runaway:

    And of course, announced this year was DirectX 12 Ultimate which is the future on PC and Xbox.
     
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  11. chris1515

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    The 5700 Xt has the same amount of bandwidth than the full PS5 and the PS5 GPU is more powerful than a 5700 XT. ;) There is some logic about what I am saying, if PS5 had Infinity cache I would have no problem at all. ;) The 6700 XT is supposed to have only 384 GB/s but with infinity cache.

    If DX12 was working on Windows 7, DX11 would have been long gone.
     
  12. Globalisateur

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    PS5 has GPU cache scrubbers and custom I/O (completely bypassing the CPU) which should both reduce main ram accesses. The rumored unified L3 cache on CPU should also reduce bandwidth pressure (if true).

    You are really too fixated on some specs taken in isolation of the whole design.
     
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  13. chris1515

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    It does not change the fact than CPU + SSD and Tempest Engine* put more pressure on main bandwidth than if the GPU had it all alone for it after maybe cache scrubber are much more efficient than I think. I don't know because I am not a dev with a PS5 devkit but on paper this is the only things looking strange about PS5 performance.

    After maybe red gaming tech source is true and there is something about cache hierarchy on PS5 GPU but we need to wait next dictator video to see where is the PS5 performance. This will be more interesting than comparison with XSX because we will be able to see if PS5 can perform better than a 5700 XT or compete with a 2080 for example on AC Valhalla.

    *Mark Cerny told to pay attention for tempest Engine because it can affect PS5 GPU memory bandwith.

    EDIT:
    Seeing the spec I was thinking PS5 will be able to compete without RT with a 2080 out of memory bandwidth deficiency and XSX to be a bit above a 2080 Super.

    The weakness of PS4 Pro is being memory bandwith limited and the reason XB1X performs sometimes nearly two times better than it.
     
    #3013 chris1515, Dec 3, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
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  14. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    Guess...
    Different workloads create different bottlenecks. The PS5 will most certainly be bottlenecked by memory bandwidth along with most other aspects of it's architecture depending on what developers try to do with it.

    Cache scrubbers are unlikely to have any appreciable impact on main memory bandwidth given they're designed to prevent cache flushes related only to those segments of main memory that have been overwritten from the SSD which has a maximum streaming speed of around 11GB/s. So any bandwidth savings are likely to be well below that level. And that would of course be more than counteracted by the act of streaming that data into memory from the SSD in the first place which will consume up to 11GB/s. Although the reality is that during normal gameplay it will be far, far...far less than this (as will the corresponding benefits to bandwidth usage that the cache scrubbers may offer).

    I doubt it. Zen 3 which also has a (much larger) unified L3 still benefits from increased RAM speeds all the way up to DDR4-4000 (64GB/s). So it stands to reason that the CPU in PS5 which will be pushed harder will be able to consume at least that much bandwidth:

    https://www.techspot.com/article/2140-ryzen-5000-memory-performance/
     
    #3014 pjbliverpool, Dec 3, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  15. Globalisateur

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    See, you are doing the same mistake of being fixated on one specific spec. On top of 50% more bandwidth (without split memory hindrance BTW) XB1X has also 44% more compute, 50% more memory size (which helps using bigger buffers hence higher resolution in many cases), more GPU cache and has about 25% higher GPU clocks.
     
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  16. chris1515

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    Devs told to digitalfoundry the problem of PS4 Pro is the memory bandwidth and the reason sometimes the difference with the XBX is looking like higher than the spec sheet difference between the two consoles. They said it multiple times.

    It is a bottleneck.
     
    #3016 chris1515, Dec 3, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
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  17. PSman1700

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    In a game that favours AMD (AC valhalla). Then even a 6700xt would compete with a 3090 or something. In reality PS5 is very close to 2070/S in raw performance. RT 2060/S.
     
  18. Globalisateur

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    @chris1515 It's partially the mem bandwidth. And there was 50% more here. A system performance is the sum of its specs.
     
  19. chris1515

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    A 5700XT is able to compete with a 2070. A PS5 is not far from a 2080 but this will maybe not bet true because of the memory bandwidth. If the PS5 performs better than expected reading the spec against PC, I am curious to know why? But again the lack of transparency on Sony side is a bad thing.
     
  20. chris1515

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    The devs were precise. It create a bottleneck and the PS4 Pro "underperform" compared to the other part of the specs.

    I have a PS4 Pro no Xbox and I will have a PS5 but speaking of technology I like the truth. I had some gift card from my job I use for buy a PS4 PRo in september 2017. Waiting two months later, I could buy a Xbox One X. I was not interested.

    Power is not my main motivator to buy a console, it is the game. Out of PS4 all my consoles were not the most powerful but I like speak of technology and if again the PS5 performance is better than expected not only against XSX but against PC I want to know why...

    EDIT:
    If I was obsessed by power I would a PC not a console...
     
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