Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

[Rootax]

Sorry, you did say that.

But xbox uses DXR also.
So in your point, guess that leaves PS5.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if we see a demonstrable big difference for PS5 compared to RDNA2 DXR on PC. Especially after early gen 1 launch titles

Yeah, but I guess maybe you can do more thing close to the metal vs the pc version ? The devs saying that were not talking about only PS5 it seems, but yeah, it's a but weird for the xbox plate form.

 

[Jay]

Yeah, but I guess maybe you can do more thing close to the metal vs the pc version ? The devs saying that were not talking about only PS5 it seems, but yeah, it's a but weird for the xbox plate form.

You do have more access on xbox for certain things within DX12U, don't know if DXR is one of them.

But I'd still be surprised if it held back RDNA2 PC that much in comparison.
In the end PC will always have enough power to brute force it anyway.

Considering GDK is for cross platform development, hopefully won't be long until dev docs for xbox are released, or leaked.
I see little reason for the GDK to be nda'd in the future anyway?

 

[function]

Xbox goes being the PC, e. g. it exposes the bvh tree so it can be tuned by the developer, iirc. It's got lower level access than PC, and that can potentially boost performance at the cost of more work. Probably why that dev was talking specifically about the PC implementations of RT.

I expect that current games are using a basic PC style implementation though.

 

[Jay]

Xbox goes being the PC, e. g. it exposes the bvh tree so it can be tuned by the developer, iirc. It's got lower level access than PC, and that can potentially boost performance at the cost of more work. Probably why that dev was talking specifically about the PC implementations of RT.

I expect that current games are using a basic PC style implementation though.

Ok, as I said wasn't sure what if any different access had on xbox and what in reality it would actually mean, so thanks for the input.

Be interesting to know why thats not exposed on pc.
I'd assume it's because that's handled by the driver so lower level access would be problematic or not even make sense.

 

[liams]

Ok, as I said wasn't sure what if any different access had on xbox and what in reality it would actually mean, so thanks for the input.

Be interesting to know why thats not exposed on pc.
I'd assume it's because that's handled by the driver so lower level access would be problematic or not even make sense.

For the pc you would have to do a custom implementation for at minimum, every gpu architecture, and most likely more than that. So you would need a RTX 3000 series implementation, a 2000 series, etc etc. And the same one the Amd side, so RDNA1, RDNA1 etc. In addition, there's a good chance that when a new gpu architecture comes out your game wouldn't work. On the consoles there's just one thing to build for.

 

[function]

Ok, as I said wasn't sure what if any different access had on xbox and what in reality it would actually mean, so thanks for the input.

Be interesting to know why thats not exposed on pc.
I'd assume it's because that's handled by the driver so lower level access would be problematic or not even make sense.

Yeah, I think it's hidden behind DX and the driver, probably to allow for different implementations by the likes of Nvida, AMD, Intel etc. I'd guess that as RT matures [and things become more standardised?] later versions of DXR will expose more of the underlying gubbins, similar to the way pixel and vertex shaders have evolved.

Edit: here's the quotes on the Xbox RT courtesy of Digital Foundry:

"[Series X] goes even further than the PC standard in offering more power and flexibility to developers," reveals Goossen. "In grand console tradition, we also support direct to the metal programming including support for offline BVH construction and optimisation. With these building blocks, we expect ray tracing to be an area of incredible visuals and great innovation by developers over the course of the console's lifetime."

I'd be astounded if PS5 doesn't offer similar low level access, and given the similarities of the hardware the same kind of optimisations will probably work well for both. In this sense it's got to be a good thing that the consoles are so similar.

I'm pretty optimistic about RT on the next gen systems. They've not got the grunt of Nvidia's solution, but I think we're still going to see some really nice stuff.

 

[iroboto]

Ok, as I said wasn't sure what if any different access had on xbox and what in reality it would actually mean, so thanks for the input.

Be interesting to know why thats not exposed on pc.
I'd assume it's because that's handled by the driver so lower level access would be problematic or not even make sense.

re DXR June:

DXR performance in the June 2020 release isn’t indicative of the final expected performance. While API functionality is mostly complete in this release, performance will be improved in future releases.
• The following aren’t supported in this release but will become available in a future release.
• Callable Shaders
• DXR tier 1.1 RayQuery and DispatchRayIndirect

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Borderlands 3 tested on PS5, Xbox Series X and Series S - can next-gen sustain 60fps?

Article here: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-borderlands-3-next-gen-upgrade-tested

A second game with better (albeit crappy) foliage on one platform? From puddlegate to saladgate?

 

[BRiT]

The title should be:

Borderlands 3 tested - does it still crash?
YES! Absolutely.

Love the game, at times, but it's always been a crash fest regardless of whatever platform you're playing it on.


As to the reason for the foliage, it's because of legacy Xbox One code.

This isn't a revelation, as we saw the same thing on PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. Rather than being a measure for system performance, this particular difference seems to be legacy code inherited by the new machines too, giving PS5 a distinctive advantage across the opening wastelands in foliage density.

 

[Shortbread]

So better shadow quality and more foliage coverage on PS5 version.

 

[Shortbread]

The title should be:

Borderlands 3 tested - does it still crash?
YES! Absolutely.

Love the game, at times, but it's always been a crash fest regardless of whatever platform you're playing it on.


As to the reason for the foliage, it's because of legacy Xbox One code.

You would think Gearbox at the very least would have adjusted foliage coverage for XBSX/S.

 

[BRiT]

So better shadow quality and more foliage coverage on PS5 version.

But if 120 FPS mode is your thing, the lack of VRR support on PS5 hurts it.

You would think Gearbox at the very least would have adjusted foliage coverage for XBSX/S.

This is Gearbox. They should, but they haven't.

 

[Shortbread]

But if 120 FPS mode is your thing, the lack of VRR support on PS5 hurts it.



This is Gearbox. They should, but they haven't.

Yeah, Sony should have had VRR and 1440p native support ready at launch... but oh no, would rather wait for customer demand.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Curious to see why XSX has advantage in 120fps mode considering system arch is not optimized for low latency and there is split L3 yadda yadda /s

Good comparison, seem close enough to be pretty much identical.

 

[Shortbread]

Curious to see why XSX has advantage in 120fps mode considering system arch is not optimized for low latency and there is split L3 yadda yadda /s

Good comparison, seem close enough to be pretty much identical.

Lower image quality settings? There are pictures [now] floating around showing shadowing, foliage, and AF favoring PS5. But yes, both are very similar.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Lower image quality settings? There are pictures [now] floating around showing shadowing, foliage, and AF favoring PS5. But yes, both are very similar.

I was under impression it is same as settings for XBX and Pro.

 

[Shortbread]

I was under impression it is same as settings for XBX and Pro.

The only differences between image quality mode (4K/60fps) and performance mode (1080p/120fps) are resolution settings, no other assets or quality settings have been changed.

Anyhow...

Rather than being a measure for system performance, this particular difference seems to be legacy code inherited by the new machines too, giving PS5 a distinctive advantage across the opening wastelands in foliage density. Shadow quality also appears to be improved too.

 

[BillSpencer]

Curious to see why XSX has advantage in 120fps mode considering system arch is not optimized for low latency and there is split L3 yadda yadda /s

Good comparison, seem close enough to be pretty much identical.

It probably has an advantage because it's running at lower settings

 

[Riddlewire]

So, extending this query a little further...
Why did the Xbox One X have a detail deficit compared to the PS4 Pro?

My answer: Because the game was designed for the base PS4 and Xbox One, and Gearbox has just been "patching it upwards" since then.

 

[Shortbread]

Speaking of shadowing differences, someone mentioned Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War on XBSX is running a lower quality form of RT shadowing (missing coverage as well). I've finally seen the photos, and yes, something looks quite off. Thoughts?