Devil May Cry 4 Going Multi-platform! (Xbox 360/PS3/PC) *Confirmed

[scooby_dooby]

There's not a single developer on this board - PS3 or 360 - that will speak against the Cell's advantage over the XeCPU in areas such as physics...

So what? Straight comparisons of the CPU don't really mean much, since they do not operate in isolation of the rest of the system. There are dev's who state that they are using CELL to 'baby' RSX simply to get the same results as 360 for example.

In that case, it doesn't matter how CELL compares to XeCPU, in isolation, because a large percentage of CELL's resources are being spent aiding the GPU.

While it's seemingly true that all dev's agree CELL has an advantage over Xenon, that does not mean a lot in and of itself when the system seems to have other weaknesses that require assistance from the CPU.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Heh, that's actually funny - meaning that your competitor does the marketing for your title, too?

Well, is there any argument that Sony marketed UT 2007 during their keynote at E3 2005? A game that was 'ps3' for over a year, which we now know will come to 360 sameday?

I don't pretend to know the motives of why companies do this, and who's making the decision, all I know is it happens.

Mercs2 for example, the dev's knew for a long time that it was coming to 360, yet they insisted on denying it and keeping it a secret. When they finally made the announcement, they made a video joking about at all the hints they had dropped that people had never picked up on.

Ubisoft did a very similar thing with Assassin's Creed.

 

[Carl B]

So what? Straight comparisons of the CPU don't really mean much, since they do not operate in isolation of the rest of the system. There are dev's who state that they are using CELL to 'baby' RSX simply to get the same results as 360 for example.

In that case, it doesn't matter how CELL compares to XeCPU, in isolation, because a large percentage of CELL's resources are being spent aiding the GPU.

While it's seemingly true that all dev's agree CELL has an advantage over Xenon, that does not mean a lot in and of itself when the system seems to have other weaknesses that require assistance from the CPU.

I'm going to say this slowly and clearly, so there is no confusion. I want it well understood that I choose my words very deliberately - the statements are rarely sweeping. This is what I said:

...I do feel that the SPEs have gameplay-enhancing potential...

I didn't say or imply that the final result would look better than a 360 version, I didn't say or imply that given an identical look, PS3's SPEs might not need to be partially commited to said operations to help achieve it - all I said, is that the SPE's have potential to take gameplay a step beyond what the XeCPU is capable of. Doesn't mean that devs will choose to make those allocations vs prettying up the graphics instead, but the option is there.

That's all I was saying.

I swear I've been the most adamant about combating Sony fanboyism in this thread, yet here I am fighting for my life!

 

[V-G]

Who didn't predict this when it became official that DCM4 uses the same frame-work as Lost Planet and Dead Rising?

Seems like Capcom is walking the road of EA and Ubisoft, wouldn't be a big surprise to see LP and DR announced for PS3 too which IMHO wouldn't be bad as none of the current and announced titles seem to take advantage of/push any system.
Sure beats the RE4 GC exclusive scenario.

Now I just hope that all those rawing about DMC4 going to the 360 too actually are going to buy it. Oh and I just can't imagine the controls on a PC.

 

[NERO]

Carl has been judicious in keeping this thread alive even though he's being attacked.
Multi-platform is good for consumers and shareholders. We all win.

 

[RobertR1]

well at the same time there is online for the PS3 version, where it isn't for 360 (FN3). You can turn it every way. But that's rather OT here

So when I was playing Fight Night 3 on Live, it was a dream?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Where does it not look like that?

Er... in the post that I've originaly replied to? In posts before that?

There's not a single developer on this board - PS3 or 360 - that will speak against the Cell's advantage over the XeCPU in areas such as physics... to take an arbitrary example.

That's exactly the point. We've seen a lot of technology demos about physics, graphics, software rendering, movie assets with precalculated everything rendering and so on. But we've never seen it in a complete game... unquestionable superiority of the PS3, gameplay that couldn't be done on the X360, you name it. Yet people accept it as a given, as an axiom.
So DMC4 turns out to be multiplatform. Ohnoes, now it gotta be soo much more lame to play then it'd be on teh PS3, right? I can already predict what will happen to any other title that drops the PS3 exclusivity...

It's the talent of the developer that matters; especially when hardware is this close. If there's anything to learn through working in the industry, it's this.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

all I said, is that the SPE's have potential to take gameplay a step beyond what the XeCPU is capable of.

Again an example where I disagree. Gameplay is about the developer first and foremost. If we're talking about a game that's multiplatform across the Wii, PS2, X360 and PS3, then I can agree that the hardware must be a limiting factor for the gameplay, but it's not the case here.

 

[Carl B]

Er... in the post that I've originaly replied to? In posts before that?

It's good you phrase the above two sentences as questions, because indeed there is an answer, and that answer is: 'no'

In fact, the post you originally quoted, I was making a point - to counter Scooby - that I felt the PS3 version would not suffer visually for being on the 360 as well. If you want to debate someone, maybe it should be him and his post I was responding to. Even the specific text snippet of mine you responded to was the *then* part of an if/then statement, with the "if" part being essentially paraphrased as "If I am wrong about this title not suffering visually..."

Re-read that post of mine, the post it responds to, and post #97 if you are unsure of my position on the matter as it relates to this thread. In fact, if you think that I am here lamenting the move to 360 or some sort of perceived quality loss, you're better off re-reading *all* of my posts in this thread Laa, if you ever even read them to begin with.

That's exactly the point. We've seen a lot of technolgoy demos about physics, graphics, software rendering, movie assets with precalculated everything rendering and so on. But we've never seen it in a complete game... unquestionable superiority of the PS3, gameplay that couldn't be done on the X360, you name it. Yet people accept it as a given, as an axiom.

Laa I'm just going to ask you a yes/no question here - do you think that there will be instances this gen where the game being viewed is possible only due to the SPEs?

So DMC4 turns out to be multiplatform. Ohnoes, now it gotta be soo much more lame to play then it'd be on teh PS3, right? I can already predict what will happen to any other title that frops the PS3 exclusivity...

Yeah, you think you're debating someone else here, because this is not my view at all.

It's the talent of the developer that matters; especially when hardware is this close. If there's anything to learn through working in the industry, it's this.

No doubt it's the developer that matters, but at the same time, the hardware provides the sandbox for the artist to work in.

 

[V-G]

I swear I've been the most adamant about combating Sony fanboyism in this thread, yet here I am fighting for my life!

LOL, well even the best got his/her limits.

 

[Carl B]

Carl has been judicious in keeping this thread alive even though he's being attacked.
Multi-platform is good for consumers and shareholders. We all win.

I appreciate the kind words Nero (and the enlightened view on multiconsole), but I don't mind tussling with Scooby or Laa-Yosh; afterall that's what participating in these threads is all about. I wouldn't want to lose that over some strange deference to my staff status now. Afterall - intelligent debate is what this forum is built on! Luckily for me I know that there is no such deference from either Scooby or Laa-Yosh.

 

[Tap In]

Xb, (I could be wrong) but even though LY is quoting you, I think he is (for the most part) using your points as a discussion to/about others who do seem to hold this view as a "fact", rather than open to interpretation; no matter the evidence presented to the contrary. unlike you, who is obviously capable of seeing past the rhetoric. IMO

 

[Carl B]

Xb, even though LY is quoting you, I think he is (for the most part) using your points as a discussion to/about others who do seem to hold this view as a "fact", rather than open to interpretation; no matter the evidence presented to the contrary. unlike you, who is obviously capable of seeing past the rhetoric. IMO

Oh no no no, from his language in post #168 I think it's clear he definitely thinks I'm personally espousing the view.

I must defend my honor Tap In, else...

 

[Tap In]

Oh no no no, from his language in post #168 I think it's clear he definitely thinks I'm personally espousing the view.

I must defend my honor Tap In, else...

ok

Allow me to step out of the way then.

 

[patsu]

So what? Straight comparisons of the CPU don't really mean much, since they do not operate in isolation of the rest of the system. There are dev's who state that they are using CELL to 'baby' RSX simply to get the same results as 360 for example.

In that case, it doesn't matter how CELL compares to XeCPU, in isolation, because a large percentage of CELL's resources are being spent aiding the GPU.

While it's seemingly true that all dev's agree CELL has an advantage over Xenon, that does not mean a lot in and of itself when the system seems to have other weaknesses that require assistance from the CPU.

Not sure if you can jump to that conclusion yet. The discussion happened in the context of a cross platform game development. As indicated in the same thread, there are alternative ways to solve the highlighted problems. The issue was that sub-optimal technical decisions (from PS3 point of view) have been made prior to the PS3 development. Even for cross platform games, I think once the relative strengths and weaknesses are known, the developers should be able to write their next cross platform games better.

Also, we don't know how large/small a percentage of Cell is used to aid RSX in these scenarios. I think different titles will have different characteristics.

From the follow up posts, it seems that some developers are not familiar with SPU programming too (e.g., using instructions or algorihms that are not good for SPU performance).

We also have to remember that the thread highlighted RSX's vertex processing limitations (which can be overcomed by Cell). We have not spoken much about its strength because everyone understood it as a 7x00 GPU. We should be able to see some game greatness coming from Cell + RSX.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Well, "what if" indeed? But I stand by my statement. In fact if the PS3 version looks worse than the 360 version, I will contend that the PS3 version looks as it would have looked anyway, and it was simply easier for the devs to tweak a little and derive greater PQ out of the 360. Seeing as how the Framework engine is well suited to such, hey...

So to me, again... PS3 owners don't suffer. And if the 360 version looks better? Well - I'll say that's great, now there is a better looking version of the game than there otherwise would have been period; and that's simply a positive from a 'history of gaming' standpoint.

There's no question that PS3 owners do not suffer from the announcement.
But there's also no question that potential PS3 owners do suffer.

It's not just DMC, either. If DMC, what else? That class of game was one of the two biggest reasons to get a PS3 (the other big reason being Sony's excellent 1st party efforts). Going forward, it seems that first party games will be the main difference between the 360 and PS3. Even though I knew that was coming, it's still kind of weird to see the market shift.

 

[V-G]

There's no question that PS3 owners do not suffer from the announcement.
But there's also no question that potential PS3 owners do suffer.

It's not just DMC, either. If DMC, what else? That class of game was one of the two biggest reasons to get a PS3 (the other big reason being Sony's excellent 1st party efforts). Going forward, it seems that first party games will be the main difference between the 360 and PS3. Even though I knew that was coming, it's still kind of weird to see the market shift.

Dunno if that's a good example.

If one if so much into that genre that one would actually buy a PS3 soly based on DMC4 then how about Heavenly Sword and sure to come God of War or even Ninja Gaiden Sigma (I wonder if this will be released for 360 too as it already got Black through B/C)?

It would be a much bigger hit if something like Ace Combat went multi... waith it did what?

 

[aselto]

That's exactly the point. We've seen a lot of technology demos about physics, graphics, software rendering, movie assets with precalculated everything rendering and so on. But we've never seen it in a complete game... unquestionable superiority of the PS3, gameplay that couldn't be done on the X360, you name it. Yet people accept it as a given, as an axiom.

Part of the reason is Sony's hype, part of the reason are enthusiastic PS3 des like nAo and part of the reason is the fact that PS3 launch games were more impressive than 360 launch games despite claimed Cell's difficult and not explored architecture.

I wonder how much headroom 360 has left. Its games have shown dramatic progress since launch of the system, so it could be the case when developers where already exploiting almost full system potential? OTOH games with the most interesting use of CPU capabilities will be released in late 2007 or in 2008 and even some Xenos' features are still unused. Also Gamecube and Xbox games continued to improve throughout lifespan in spite of more straightforward architecture. I'm looking forward to see future Xbox 360 games.

It's the talent of the developer that matters; especially when hardware is this close. If there's anything to learn through working in the industry, it's this.

Definitely. I haven't heard about a PS3 game having procedural facial animation system like Mass Effect, but it doesn't mean it's impossible to do on PS3 hardware.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Dunno if that's a good example.

If one if so much into that genre that one would actually buy a PS3 soly based on DMC4 then how about Heavenly Sword and sure to come God of War or even Ninja Gaiden Sigma (I wonder if this will be released for 360 too as it already got Black through B/C)?

My example was bad? What example? I didn't give one.

If someone was really into the DMC style game, yeah, the PS3 makes more sense. But then, how many people are like that? Surely that portion of the market is quite tiny.

By "class" I meant something other than genre. DMC was previously one of the biggest Japanese franchises that just never appeared on the Xbox.

 

[TheChefO]

Chef, I think there will be videos by gen's end that will allow you to differentiate between the two. And for the record, I think those videos will highlight the more impressive aspects of the 360 over the PS3 at times as well (there's more to the consoles than their CPUs afterall, and 360 does have advantages I'll readily acknowledge)

No doubt, I agree with you on the possibility. However, in a blind test (not knowing what it was you were looking at) I do not think a regular human could see the difference. The same types of gameplay elements and interactions can be duplicated on xb360 but possibly with reduced quality in certain areas. My dissagreement stems from the ability to visibly see this difference on it's own, not side by side.

In a side by side test of the same game running optimally on xb360 vs ps3 at the end of this gen I think there is a possibility one could see the difference in an added soldier here or slightly smoother animation cloth there, but on it's own I believe it would be near impossible to spot a ps3 game over a xb360 game at any point this gen. The differences would be too small to notice on their own.

Unless you know something I don't.

IMO - the difference in cpu hardware would have to be 10x plus to really see a difference. In some cases I know that is possible, but I think these things advantages would be countered in other areas with xgpu. So with the cell picking up the slack of the gpu, I see that 10x improvement in isolated performance being impacted with the added burden of handling gpu ops.

But maybe I'm completely wrong... I'm open to an insightful pm.