Details trickle out on CELL processor...

[j^aws]

As for 2Tflops(?) workstation reported in hands of developers, you can assume it's different from IBM/Sony 'Cell Processor Based Workstations' which are available as products for non-gamedev-licensee users.

In this presentation picture from E3 2004, you see 'Cell Based Game Development System' (possibly available from Sony rather than from IBM) beside the workstation.

My guess is that 2TFlops figure (if true) is a total that includes the programmable GPU also. Say 1Tflop for the CPU (CELL) and 1TFlop for the GPU (visualizer) but clocked differently.

 

[j^aws]

Meh...not sure if these CELL worksations would need a GPU (visualizer) in a rack but the CELL game development system might (standalone, not in a rack, PS3 TOOL)? :?

 

[Brimstone]

Moulic from IBM stated in his presentation at the AGDC that the Cell processor was to ship with a full SDK that contained solutions to much of the management aspects associated with writing and running parallel processes.

You can also take the "bull by the horns" and control the hardware directly if need be.

...

The primary goal of IBM with regards to the Cell processor was that it be scalable first as a rack mounted solution. Therefore the Cell Processor Workstation (CPW) will be available first up as individual form factor boards, containing a CPP, several DPPs and other small components for I/O etc.

...

Moulic confirmed in his talk at the AGDC that the based OS shipping with the first Cell Processor Architecture will be Linux.

...

I was there also. They did not disclose the number of DPPs on each unit.

All this info thats slowly trickling out makes me think it won't be long before we start hearing about XNA, POWER, and Data Plan Processors. If this ends up happening, how ironic would it be if Toshiba ended up embracing XNA?

 

[cthellis42]

Well, if they used the PPC ISA, it would be nice for APPLE and OSX!

Wouldn't it be funny if Macs suddenly jumped up to the top of gaming port ease from that and Xbox 2's moving their Direct X machinations to PowerPC as well? Suddely they'd be complaining that gaming was being put TOO front-and-center, as opposed to being in their familiar pariah role!

 

[Guden Oden]

If this ends up happening, how ironic would it be if Toshiba ended up embracing XNA?

Why would they do that? Tosh isn't a games developer!

Besides, what makes you think MS would be interested in opening up their premier devsystem to their greatest competitor (Sony)????

 

[one]

If this ends up happening, how ironic would it be if Toshiba ended up embracing XNA?

Why would they do that? Tosh isn't a games developer!

Imagine a Toshiba's product such as a nuclear reactor embraces Microsoft platform and goes into BSOD

 

[PC-Engine]

Throwing a Pentium 4 or EE/GS chip into a TV to do stuff a cheap $10 ASIC can do doesn't sound too practical.

The point is specialized ASICs can do the same job better cheaper. Why don't we have Pentiums in DVD players to decode MPEG2?

And that's why I said: SONY is trying to to use these EE/GS to save money by not buying other companies ASICs or designing their own.

Crystal clear!

Yes they're resorting to using the EE/GS to add a fancy GUI because they don't have any other chips that can do the same thing ie graphics.

If the only things you can imagine are already possible with existing equipment, then you simply are not thinking big enough. That is not a fault of the technology, just your imagination. There is a grocery list of media that can be generated from "mere" 2D imagery. Some of it may be gimmicky (like bumpmapping, you could argue), or it might turn out to be extremely useful/functional. You won't know for sure until you try. Perhaps, melding the pure spectatorship of TV with the interactivity of PS2 type of resources is an avenue to that extent.

And when did I claim to have all the answers? For all we know the CELL living room can end up being able to render FFTSW, cook us breakfast, and balance our checkbooks all at the same time.

Isn't the EE/GS designed by Sony? If Sony can save money using the EE/GS in other devices why do they need other companies ASICs or reinvent the wheel again?

How do you know its an overkill?

Because it took them 5 years to get EE/GS cool enough, cheap enough, to use it in products that don't really need it? Most people don't buy home electronics because of a fancy GUI displayed on their televisions. Have you seen the PSX motherboard? The main reason why they used the EE/GS in that was because of PS2 games compatibility. The new XMB GUI was also part of that reason. It just seems they have a bunch of EE/GSs sitting around and need to find uses for it instead of compelling features that require a EE/GS.

 

[Tuttle]

If this ends up happening, how ironic would it be if Toshiba ended up embracing XNA?

No one outside of Microsoft and developers doing xbox games has any use for XNA. The chances of Toshiba embracing XNA is zero.

 

[Guden Oden]

Because it took them 5 years to get EE/GS cool enough, cheap enough, to use it in products that don't really need it?

Bah, it must really be eating you up that the PS2 is the clear dominant market leader despite being so horrible/crap/etc.

Why don't you just go away and take your hate with you? You don't like sony anyway, so what are you doing in this thread? Go troll some other board instead whydoncha.

 

[Brimstone]

If this ends up happening, how ironic would it be if Toshiba ended up embracing XNA?

No one outside of Microsoft and developers doing xbox games has any use for XNA. The chances of Toshiba embrassing XNA is zero.

A zero chance seems extreme to me.

Well Microsoft already supports HD-DVD don't they? Are Sony and IBM going to put HD-DVD support for their workstations? I'd figure Sony would be pushing Bluray as the standard optical media, so even if Toshiba takes the time to code the software for HD-DVD on the "CELL" [Linux] OS, who is going to buy a HD-DVD if the workstations come with Bluray by default?


The relationship Toshiba and Sony have is very intresting.

 

[PC-Engine]

Because it took them 5 years to get EE/GS cool enough, cheap enough, to use it in products that don't really need it?

Bah, it must really be eating you up that the PS2 is the clear dominant market leader despite being so horrible/crap/etc.

Why don't you just go away and take your hate with you? You don't like sony anyway, so what are you doing in this thread? Go troll some other board instead whydoncha.

Actually I'm having a ball just responding to posts others brought up and addressed to me.

 

[one]

If this ends up happening, how ironic would it be if Toshiba ended up embracing XNA?

No one outside of Microsoft and developers doing xbox games has any use for XNA. The chances of Toshiba embrassing XNA is zero.

A zero chance seems extreme to me.

Well Microsoft already supports HD-DVD don't they? Are Sony and IBM going to put HD-DVD support for their workstations? I'd figure Sony would be pushing Bluray as the standard optical media, so even if Toshiba takes the time to code the software for HD-DVD on the "CELL" [Linux] OS, who is going to buy a HD-DVD if the workstations come with Bluray by default?

The relationship Toshiba and Sony have is very intresting.

What's interesting? Toshiba will manufacture and sell an HDTV with Cell, Sony will do the same thing too. It's known fact from the day one that those mega-corporations compete with each other across their subsidiaries. The only domains where they don't fight each other directly are gaming entertainment and semiconductor.

Now, the Cell workstation is an IBM/Sony venture and Toshiba has nothing with it and 'optical-media for workstation' is BS anyway.

 

[Vince]

All this info thats slowly trickling out makes me think it won't be long before we start hearing about XNA, POWER, and Data Plan Processors. If this ends up happening, how ironic would it be if Toshiba ended up embracing XNA?

First of all, what does XNA have anything to do with the Cell Architecture? Second, I don't think these DPPs are what you think they are...

 

[Mythos]

Check out H. Peter Hofstee presentation at gamespot....He mentions the ability to raytrace with the cell chip.

link:http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-9398-1266-x-x-x

 

[Farid]

Check out H. Peter Hofstee presentation at gamespot....He mentions the ability to raytrace with the cell chip.

link:http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-9398-1266-x-x-x

That presentation has very interesting infos, especially the slice where Hofstee differentiate actual hardwares, being CPU > GPU system, with Cell worstation being CPU + integrated (graphical) function.
I know Cell workstation != PS3, but that gives a little more credit to the Cell based GPU theory.

 

[wco81]

How exactly would they use the Cell in an HDTV set? To do the MPEG2 decoding? To do scaling from lower res sources to a higher res native format of the display?

It seems like the HDTV supply chain apart from the screen is working out pretty nicely. Sets are coming down in price every year and/or offering higher performance. So you would think the components of the TV apart from the display are commodities.

And for premium silicon like Faroudja, wouldn't those specialized scalers be better than any generalized processor like the Cell?

I know there's talk about networking multiple devices with the Cell to do some kind of distributed processing setup in the home but still don't see how that benefits gaming. Developers can't assume there will be more processing power available beyond what's in the PS3 so they will code for the minimum configuration.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Check out H. Peter Hofstee presentation at gamespot....He mentions the ability to raytrace with the cell chip.

You can ray trace with a Mac LC.
Heck, you could probably get most luxury cars to ray trace, anymore.

 

[Magnum PI]

And for premium silicon like Faroudja, wouldn't those specialized scalers be better than any generalized processor like the Cell?

you can already do some excellent scaling with the CPU of your PC, using software deinterlacer/scaler like dscaler:

http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/

cell will be able to do as well as any specialized scaler now available.

 

[V3]

How exactly would they use the Cell in an HDTV set? To do the MPEG2 decoding? To do scaling from lower res sources to a higher res native format of the display?

According to some Toshiba engineering, that I read ages ago in EETimes, they wanted lots of processing resources in TV so they would be able to reconstruct replays using real time graphics, that the audience can manipulate.

So say for a match, the network would construct and send this real time replay of say a goal and your TV set will draw it for you and you can manipulate the camera, etc.

That's just some of the uses there are many others listed.

 

[PC-Engine]

Realtime video broadcasts don't contain 3D information. You can only reconstruct what was already there. Unless the broadcast sent out signals from a 360 degree camera, you'll wouldn't be able to rotate the POV to any useful degree.