Impact of XBox One X on the industry and competition *spawn

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by Shifty Geezer, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Do you have that quote at hand? I didn't see it.

    The key difference between the two is never preventing developers from making games that run on the new hardware and only on the new hardware.

    Also you're not muddying your branding and marketing as to what software runs on what box. PS4's run PS4 games. PS5 runs PS5 games and can also run PS4 games through it's BC feature. Neither PS4 can run PS5 games. Simple.

    This opposed to: PS4 runs PS4 games. PS4 Pro runs PS4 games through it's BC feature, PS4 games with PS4 Pro enhancements and, "insert branding here that somehow indicates games that will run on PS4 Pro and PS5, but not PS4" games. PS5 runs PS4 and PS4 Pro enhanced games through its BC feature, PS4 games with PS5 enhancements and, "insert branding here that somehow indicates games that will run on PS4 Pro and PS5, but not PS4" games.

    I still think you overestimate the capabilities of the One X over the One, honestly. I believe anything that could run on the One X could be made to run on the One with lowered resolution/detail/performance.
     
    #121 mrcorbo, May 6, 2018
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  2. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    It’s under a registration wall so I’ll post thr important bits

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technol...hief-says-future-games-could-run-exclusively/

    There's probably another interview out there that talks about how developers currently choose their targets on the PC market, and he wants it to be more like that. Letting developers determine the market for their titles.

    Correct, that is a key differential. I'm assuming that the key concern here is that forcing developers to move forward (and the population), versus letting developers continually develop for the larger market and the population doesn't move forward, games don't move forward, thus stagnation.

    I would say just because the option presents itself for developers to take that route, doesn't necessarily mean that they would. We've known that graphics are a big part of selling a game, everyone wants the latest graphics and that's a big part of the experience. When developers are competing in the market place that will always be a factor, so they'll find a way to push that envelope and if they can do it while the legacy system is there, then that's fine, if they can't, they're going to drop it off.

    Yea this problem needs to be solved better. Their interim solution may work:
    [​IMG]
    I don't, I'm just leaving it to developers to make the choice. Most people over emphasize the importance of a feature or something incorrectly, in this case, I'm doing the opposite and undervaluing the importance of CPU for next gen. The only exception I could see is Star Citizen, but by the time games like that hit the mainstream, we'd be onto 2023 when i expect another console generation.

    I'm not yet convinced having 5x more CPU is going to be game changing at least in a way that it completely redefines gaming, or doesn't have a possible online alternative solution available.

    There will always be 30fps gaming on console, people will keep trying to push the bar. With the CPU, i dunno, if it's a draw call issue, MS has put a lot of effort into customizing executeIndirect for xbox, so perhaps that's a possible avenue. I don't know.

    I'm just not convinced that we're going to get better AI or anything from a gameplay perspective. Better animations though, yea that could be a thing. Nothing to go crazy about over. From the graphics side, ray tracing is promising, DXR allows for multiple pathways though, so once again a game can scale from hardware with the most top notch RT hardware acceleration, to a GPU with none of it.
     
    #122 iroboto, May 7, 2018
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  3. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Defining the ecosystem as the current gen + n generations prior is the opposite of allowing developers to determine the market for their titles. I don't have an issue with enabling developers to continue to target multiple generations. I do have an issue with mandating support for prior generations of hardware as a continuing policy.

    No the concern is preventing developers moving forward if they determine that is their best path to success (either financially or artistically).

    There seems to be a disconnect here. I'm advocating that developers be given the choice to support the platforms they want for their releases without being forced to support certain platforms because they are part of some sliding window. With the Xbox One to One X transition this made sense and it may make sense for other hardware transitions in the future. I just don't want to forever limit what it's possible to create on the latest and greatest hardware to what can also run on hardware that's 3, 4 or 5 years old

    A gameworld that reacts more dynamically to things you do and moves away from scripting and further towards a player-driven narrative. Fast storage and more memory enabling NPCs to stitch dialogue together so they can comment on the current world condition and the actions and current status of the player instead of repeating the same canned phrases across everyone's playthrough. Seeing a town in an RPG change over time as events in the world and the actions of the player change the "lives" and fortunes of the NPCs that reside there. So, for example, you as the player base out of a town and start doing quests and eliminating threats in the area. You make purchases at the local vendors. This improves the safety and prosperity of the town and causes vendors to improve their stock and the services they offer, causes new NPCs to immigrate to the town and build new structures, and ultimately makes it a more tempting target for more dangerous foes creating new challenges for the player. Use your imagination. There's tons of ways games can improve beyond graphics when given enough additional local resources.
     
  4. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    hmm. Yea I think we are at a weird disconnect here.
    When I read Spencer's commentary about getting full life out of their console, I interpret that as, after the 6 years it no longer has to be supported, unless developers want to support it.
    In the same vein that, 2 years from now, when XBO turns 6 years old, developers can freely target X1X and only X1X if they choose to.

    ehhh, yea I see that too. Flip side, if people are comfortable with the idea of connecting to a server to progress forward in your game, online can solve a lot of those issues yesterday, and is a great fit for that type of thing since it doesn't require a real time response, and will likely provide a more complex and dynamic world than a local processor can produce.
     
  5. Xbat

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    Well if a PS5 or Xbox next still have 30fps games, which I think they will. There will be no ways those games would run on current gen unless they not using the CPUs at all.

    First party devs will definitely up there CPU usage in my opinion.
     
  6. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Most games are GPU bottlenecked today. Frame drops are often the result of too many things happening on the screen at once. These are all graphically related CPU issues. Which, GPU side dispatch would aims to alleviate if I'm understanding it correctly.
     
  7. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Server-based single player games are not a good solution for the consumer. Online games end up having a limited shelf life because of someone having to foot the bill to run the server.
     
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  8. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Yea, it would need to take a certain model, game, or platform to support it properly.
    I like to think streaming video games to client models, would be a good starting point. Have everything up there anyway and beam it down.
    It would take a certain type of game to be so vast imo. But we're getting OT
     
  9. Xbat

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    Yes but I also think a few more games would of hit 60fps on console this gen if the CPUs weren't so weak. So yes the GPU is almost always the bottleneck but the CPU isn't far behind.
     
  10. rokkerkory

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    No matter what there's going to be some kind of bottleneck. I expect next-gen to still have the cpu to be the limiting factor.
     
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  11. Megadrive1988

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    I don't expect any games to target Xbox One X only without still being released on Xbox One.

    As for that new Fable game that's in development, if it's still 3 or more years away, I think it'll be moved to Xbox Next, if it didn't already start out targeting the next gen Xbox.
     
  12. Xbat

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    Well that's kind of what I'm saying, if the PS5 CPU is still limiting there is no way those games will run on the current consoles CPUs.
     
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