Destiny 2

[djskribbles]

Most footage has been PS4. Only recently have we seen PC footage.

AFAIK they've showed the first story mission, a strike and PVP on PS4, and only the story mission on PC. The story mission has been the most impressive thing they've showed so far (understandably).

Comparing PS4 and PC with youtube quality, apart from the obvious 60fps vs 30fps, the PC version seems to have quite a bit more particle effects. The lighting seems similar. Hard to judge texture quality with such low quality footage.

The console and PC betas are at different times, but hopefully DF or someone can record footage of all versions and do a comparison. Would like to know if it's worth getting a PS4 pro for. I'll likely play D2 for a few years at least, so if I can't justify a PS4 Pro for D2, then I'll likely try to keep my PS4 until the PS5 launches (launch ps4 still going strong).

 

[iroboto]

How are they expected to handle X1X since it comes out after the game? We buy the game in September, play on our Xbox One's for a couple months, and they give us a free patch when X1X comes out?

I bet they really want to charge for that patch...they want to charge for everything....but they know public opinion wont let them.

I wouldn't mind paying $10 for a X1X download if it meant they put a lot more effort into the One X port (same principle should apply to PS4 Pro if I owned that).

That would be the best case scenario. I'm holding my D2 pre-order ransom if there is no 1X patch. I want full information about it before launch, otherwise I'm cancelling. Another year of locked out DLC, is a tough sell, but ignoring 1X is gonna take the cake for me (which so far they've done).

Lots of other games like destiny coming out, it's no longer the only game in town.

 

[London Geezer]

Why should I be penalised for owning a better version of a console platform? Why should I pay more for owning a console? Its like saying pay $20 more if you own a gtx1080 to run on higher settings LOL ! WHat kind of convoluted shit is that?


And on that note, I have ordered a PS4 pro.....and no way in hell am I going to pay a dime extra for owning a better piece of hardware. They can keep the game to themselves and not release it if they cannot make use of a particular hardware.
Also bummed that Destiny and Destiny 2 do not outtput HDR. DO not own a 4k HDR TV yet but I might anyday and its sad to see that the gamw I will be playing most does not seem to out[ut HDR even though its a AAA juggernaut financially.

I'd be very surprised if Destiny 2 doesn't support HDR. The first never got a patch and by now it's fine. But I'm pretty sure D2 will be fully HDR, it would be a crime if it isn't.

 

[iroboto]

I'd be very surprised if Destiny 2 doesn't support HDR. The first never got a patch and by now it's fine. But I'm pretty sure D2 will be fully HDR, it would be a crime if it isn't.

They are also no longer locked to 360/PS4 era. This reboot (as I understand it) was likely put in place to move the game into proper current gen. there's no reason this game shouldn't have all the bells and whistles a conpany like bungie should be capable of.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I'd be very surprised if Destiny 2 doesn't support HDR. The first never got a patch and by now it's fine. But I'm pretty sure D2 will be fully HDR, it would be a crime if it isn't.

From the information on net as of now, the pro version is 4k 30fps and does not have HDR. Could and should change by launch. Lets see what the beta brings.

 

[London Geezer]

From the information on net as of now, the pro version is 4k 30fps and does not have HDR. Could and should change by launch. Lets see what the beta brings.

You'll find that info on Pro features (or any features really) are very sparse. Regardless of Destiny. And I blame Sony for this. Surely they're the ones who should have a bare minimum of features at least on the PSN store on the details page of the games. But no, of course they can't even do that. I basically only have one thread on Neogaf that tracks all features of all games (as best it can from real gamers' feedback) and that's it. Shameful.

 

[iroboto]

From the information on net as of now, the pro version is 4k 30fps and does not have HDR. Could and should change by launch. Lets see what the beta brings.

ughh.. vomit worthy. Sept 7 is approaching fast.

 

[BadTB25]

That would be the best case scenario. I'm holding my D2 pre-order ransom if there is no 1X patch. I want full information about it before launch, otherwise I'm cancelling. Another year of locked out DLC, is a tough sell, but ignoring 1X is gonna take the cake for me (which so far they've done).

Lots of other games like destiny coming out, it's no longer the only game in town.

So pre-order cancelled? lol

 

[iroboto]

So pre-order cancelled? lol

I'll let you know on slack if I cancel. If I do, it doesn't mean I won't play the game, but I certainly don't mind waiting for the game to receive proper support (DLC bundles, which full game is now $40 CAD as opposed to 80 + 40 + 40 + 20 piece meal). Sort of like Mass Effect, they released a broken product and I won't buy in until it's patched well.

I'm not even sure if the 1X version is coming for Destiny 2. They just refuse to make commentary. They are apparently 'evaluating' 1X. Seriously? Evaluating? What is there to really evaluate, just put out the word you're making 1X edition like they did for 4Pro. To even suggest that they're won't be 4K version of D2 for 1X is reason enough for me to avoid the product until it's released. I'm not sure i understand the logic there.

If they aren't willing to invest into a proper version, with the amount of $ that they have, I don't see why we should purchase day 1. The features clearly exist on PC, and HDR gaming is something they've known about since last year E3.

 

[Jay]

is this just bad reporting or is the 1X really not getting much done?
I know it's a PS marketed game but I struggle to believe this is the case.
PC gets 60fps, PS gets dlc etc, Xbox no love, there's already disparity between versions.
http://wccftech.com/bungie-no-xb1x-enhancements-destiny-2/

 

[iroboto]

is this just bad reporting or is the 1X really not getting much done?
I know it's a PS marketed game but I struggle to believe this is the case.
PC gets 60fps, PS gets dlc etc, Xbox no love, there's already disparity between versions.
http://wccftech.com/bungie-no-xb1x-enhancements-destiny-2/

yea its pretty bad. Like the rational makes no sense, lowest common denominator is Xbox One, so why bother with a 4Pro version then?
I dunno, its' been grinding my gears lately, and if I don't hear official news of an 1X version I'm gonna eject. Clearly its pure BS that the consoles need to cater to lowest common denominator, the work has already been done on PC. With beefier parts all over on 1X, there has to be _something_ they can turn the dial on.

 

[Rangers]

is this just bad reporting or is the 1X really not getting much done?
I know it's a PS marketed game but I struggle to believe this is the case.
PC gets 60fps, PS gets dlc etc, Xbox no love, there's already disparity between versions.
http://wccftech.com/bungie-no-xb1x-enhancements-destiny-2/

Lets hold off on the pitchforks. We are a LONG way from the Digital Foundry face off here. Going by his wording then the PC version is no different either "same experience on all platforms" but it seems to look better graphically (ignoring 60 FPS) although like Skribbles I dont know the details, just that I had a passing thought the 60 FPS PC footage on youtube looked really great.

Since they are doing PC anyway hopefully they can put high/ultra PC settings on X1X without much hassle. Although ultra PC settings in many cases will still be out of reach of X1X, I already read one dev saying (I forget the game) "our PC AO is not console friendly".

 

[BadTB25]

I'll let you know on slack if I cancel.

I know...just messing with you.

But it does almost seem like Bungie still has some sour grapes with MS.

 

[djskribbles]

You guys do remember that Bungie bumped the XB1 version of D1 from 900p in the beta to 1080p at retail to match PS4, right? They could have easily left it at 900p and it would be considered par for the course. I doubt there's any sour grapes between Bungie and MS. The details between their partnership are made between Sony and Activision AFAIK.

The article that Jay posted, to me, reads that X1X won't receive additional enhancements over Pro. I'm pretty sure that it at least supports 4K/30 like Pro. Even if there are small improvements over Pro, I don't think Bungie would say, due to the deal with Sony, which I think is pretty normal for these kind of deals. I mean they won't confirm PS4 Pro support for Shadow of War, even though Shadow of Mordor runs at 4K on Pro.

 

[iroboto]

You guys do remember that Bungie bumped the XB1 version of D1 from 900p in the beta to 1080p at retail to match PS4, right? They could have easily left it at 900p and it would be considered par for the course. I doubt there's any sour grapes between Bungie and MS. The details between their partnership are made between Sony and Activision AFAIK.

The article that Jay posted, to me, reads that X1X won't receive additional enhancements over Pro. I'm pretty sure that it at least supports 4K/30 like Pro. Even if there are small improvements over Pro, I don't think Bungie would say, due to the deal with Sony, which I think is pretty normal for these kind of deals. I mean they won't confirm PS4 Pro support for Shadow of War, even though Shadow of Mordor runs at 4K on Pro.

MS came to bungies offices to deploy a new kit and get it to 1080p. If MS didn't step in I'm unsure of the story tbh.

Here's the reality. I actually trust Phil Spencer when he says he would never pay for a clause that would limit the performance of the game on a competitors device. He explicitly said it.

I don't trust Sony when they say well it's an obvious rational thing to do to target the lowest common denominator.

So even though PS4 Pro is not mentioned with SoM, I'm confident they will max it for 4Pro.
Edit: They said back in May that Shadows of War will support both Scorpio and PS4 Pro, so not the same as Bungie saying: We are evaluating 1X, it's still new, it's only 2 days old. Except 65+ titles got announced support for it and was announced last year.

I don't have that confidence with Destiny:

a) it is a parity clause since they run higher settings on the PC version. The idea that only a 1080Ti could run those settings is improbable, at half the frame time and half the flips but not half bandwidth, Scorpio should be fine.

B) Jim Ryan pointed at the rational of lowest denominator, no attempt to address the real question being asked, which is whether they paid bungie to limit performance on competing consoles, clearly PC was not part of that discussion.

C) considering that the last DLC was locked for nearly 2 years; yea no confidence in Sony.

Tweets in question:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/875391245610135552

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/875391322525323265

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/875391606563643392

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/875391765674573824

 

[djskribbles]

I think you're taking what Phil and Jim are saying at face value.

I think Phil is doing a pretty great job taking over Xbox and turning things around, but to believe everything he is saying, and to believe Sony has clauses to limit competitors machines, just because they believe that it's rational to target the lowest common denominator (not actually saying they have clauses in their contracts), is pretty ridiculous to be honest.

Phil has also said that they don't believe in exclusivity deals, when their entire E3 conference was full of "exclusive console launches". He has marketed X1X as a True 4K machine, throwing jabs at Sony for using tricks to create a 4K output, when those same tricks are used with X1X and is in fact part of their True 4K label.

I realize Phil wasn't head of XB last gen, but when they were in the power position, they had no hesitations securing these exclusive deals. Things are different when you're not on the top.

I'm sure taking full advantage of X1X, or giving it a little extra love wouldn't be much work for Bungie. But the fact that is more work at all, doesn't give them much reason to take advantage of the hardware. Especially when your game is being partnered with the competitor. I mean just look at PS4 Pro support... it hasn't been as good as it could be.

Sure I can see why future X1X owners would be upset, but it's just business as usual. PS4 fans felt the same way. I don't think it's reason enough alone to not buy a game. If anything, the exclusive content should be the reason. Again, exclusive content sucks, but don't act like MS hasn't done the same thing.

 

[Recop]

You can always expect more from a stronger hardware. If it doesn't happen, then either there was forced parity or developers had an unambitious target on all hardwares. It could be a lack of time/resources too (Destiny is an AAA though).

However, i don't think that Destiny 2 could run at 60fps on XBX if it's not possible on Pro. The horsepower is simply not here.

Anyway, it's funny to see how some opinions seem to have suddenly changed... : https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/forced-parity-destiny-edition-spawn.56085/

While Destiny 2 is not even out yet...

 

[iroboto]

I think you're taking what Phil and Jim are saying at face value.

I think Phil is doing a pretty great job taking over Xbox and turning things around, but to believe everything he is saying, and to believe Sony has clauses to limit competitors machines, just because they believe that it's rational to target the lowest common denominator (not actually saying they have clauses in their contracts), is pretty ridiculous to be honest.

Phil has also said that they don't believe in exclusivity deals, when their entire E3 conference was full of "exclusive console launches". He has marketed X1X as a True 4K machine, throwing jabs at Sony for using tricks to create a 4K output, when those same tricks are used with X1X and is in fact part of their True 4K label.

I realize Phil wasn't head of XB last gen, but when they were in the power position, they had no hesitations securing these exclusive deals. Things are different when you're not on the top.

I'm sure taking full advantage of X1X, or giving it a little extra love wouldn't be much work for Bungie. But the fact that is more work at all, doesn't give them much reason to take advantage of the hardware. Especially when your game is being partnered with the competitor. I mean just look at PS4 Pro support... it hasn't been as good as it could be.

Sure I can see why future X1X owners would be upset, but it's just business as usual. PS4 fans felt the same way. I don't think it's reason enough alone to not buy a game. If anything, the exclusive content should be the reason. Again, exclusive content sucks, but don't act like MS hasn't done the same thing.

This has nothing to do with Sony or MS. I frankly do not care that Sony or MS employs these tactics. That's not what I'm upset about, nor did I indicate that Sony is evil and MS is great. I can only go by the statements that they released; and as far as I can see, one statement is par for the course, the other is actually quite new (Jim Ryan's statement since, PS4 has always had the better version in nearly all their titles, with a handful of fringe cases)

This really comes down to Bungie and how Bungie wants this to play out. Sony's not bad for doing what they did, they needed a killer FPS, this was it for their platform. If it could have been exclusive, I'm sure Sony would have paid for it.

But.

I'm choosing with my wallet if I should continue to support a game because I'm tired of Destiny in particular being the one title that is constantly pushing the boundaries of what the contracts can do. 2 year DLC wait, which releases after destiny 2 is released. Another year of DLC wait for all DLC content again for Destiny 2. They are now only 'evaluating' 4K for Scorpio when 4K is confirmed on 4Pro. Frankly, this is an exceptional case of trying their customer patience.

 

[iroboto]

You can always expect more from a stronger hardware. If it doesn't happen, then either there was forced parity or developers had an unambitious target on all hardwares. It could be a lack of time/resources too (Destiny is an AAA though).

However, i don't think that Destiny 2 could run at 60fps on XBX if it's not possible on Pro. The horsepower is simply not here.

Anyway, it's funny to see how some opinions seem to have suddenly changed... : https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/forced-parity-destiny-edition-spawn.56085/

While Destiny 2 is not even out yet...

And I don't disagree, in the past there was not enough information to determine if it was forced parity or developers had an unambitious target on all hardwares. I couldn't prove it. And I sided with Bungie at the time, because it was going to ship at 900p on xbox, they got help to move it up. So in the end, I would say that Destiny was not ambitious, and it's entirely possible that 360 and PS3 held it back.

But this time around they made the mistake of releasing a PC version and showcasing it, and with tradition, comes the most features one can dial on PC. Unless of course 4Pro is running Ultra max settings + 4K @ 30fps... then I have no complaints. Unambitious target, and I'm comfortable with that, and I'd be comfortable if 1X ran the same setup as 4Pro in this case. In every other situation I'm not comfortable with it, but the situation that has me peeved the most is the idea that they wouldn't even outright say that they are supporting the platform, 1X releases exactly 60 days after Destiny 2 releases, certification takes 4 weeks. They informed everyone they are evaluating 4K on 1X and then said their focus are on platforms that are out 'today'.

If they start building a scorpio version after the game is released, it's not likely to be enhanced at all by the time 1X is out, 1X owners are likely to wait even longer, if they even get a version. The misconception here is that people think I'm complaining about 4Pro and 1X being parity, there's not even enough information to indicate that there will be a 1X version ready by the time 1X is released.

And that's where I feel like boundaries are being pushed. Call it concern trolling, but the timelines aren't exactly favourable for 1X launch.

 

[djskribbles]

This has nothing to do with Sony or MS. I frankly do not care that Sony or MS employs these tactics. That's not what I'm upset about, nor did I indicate that Sony is evil and MS is great. I can only go by the statements that they released; and as far as I can see, one statement is par for the course, the other is actually quite new (Jim Ryan's statement since, PS4 has always had the better version in nearly all their titles, with a handful of fringe cases)

This really comes down to Bungie and how Bungie wants this to play out. Sony's not bad for doing what they did, they needed a killer FPS, this was it for their platform. If it could have been exclusive, I'm sure Sony would have paid for it.

But.

I'm choosing with my wallet if I should continue to support a game because I'm tired of Destiny in particular being the one title that is constantly pushing the boundaries of what the contracts can do. 2 year DLC wait, which releases after destiny 2 is released. Another year of DLC wait for all DLC content again for Destiny 2. They are now only 'evaluating' 4K for Scorpio when 4K is confirmed on 4Pro. Frankly, this is an exceptional case of trying their customer patience.

Fair enough.

But consider that even though Bungie dropped PS3/X360 support, they are, in a way, supporting more platforms than before -- while still supporting D1 up until earlier this year. Also, X1X doesn't even release until November, and the game is still in development, so perhaps they're not even at a stage yet where they can confirm 4K (even though I think it's pretty much guaranteed). Who knows, maybe they're still optimizing to get Pro up to 4K.