Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2022] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Allandor]

That is because of cross gen.

Now as cross gen slowly but surely ends, we can expect the use of DX12 Ultimate in games.

Don't think so. DX12 is quite old right now but still not used in all new games. Also games that implement DX12 have often trouble on PCs.
Maybe after this generation we might see majority of games really use DX12 and even some that use ultimate features.

 

[davis.anthony]

It provides about as much benefit as FSR does in a DLSS supported title.

As it's possible to hack in FSR support in to games that support DLSS (and get huge performance gains) you might want to think harder for your next wise ass reply.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Don't think so. DX12 is quite old right now but still not used in all new games. Also games that implement DX12 have often trouble on PCs.
Maybe after this generation we might see majority of games really use DX12 and even some that use ultimate features.

I assume he was referring to the fact that the consoles don't implement DX12U features on account of all the cross gen games. But when that ends and UE5 games start to flood the market, those features will be implemented more widely on consoles, and thus naturally on PC too. DX12 can't be avoided on PC as it's required (more or less) for Ray Tracing.

 

[Dampf]

Unity might be using DX12 Ultimate. I was comparing my benchmark result of the enemies demo from my 2060 laptop to another guys 1070 and while usually both cards perform very similar, my laptop was 56% faster in this demo without RT and DLSS.

It seems like the Unity Tech Demo Enemies makes heavy use of the advanced featureset.

Edit: it seems like RT Shadows are turned on for some reason, when the DLSS.dll is missing. So the 1070 has to render them via software Raytracing.

 

[SNYMA]

 

[pjbliverpool]

Would be good to see how this performs with a locked framerate either through the demo or RTSS. I'd hope and expect to see something much smoother and hopefully a flat frame time graph at say 60 or 70fps. Although more interesting to see it running at a locked 80fps or 90fps at DLSS Quality if the CPU is up to the task.

 

[BitByte]

Glad I am not the only one who noticed that.

Both you and @Dampf need to get out here with this garbage. This shit should be ban worthy. It’s straight up slander. GPU vendor stans and keyboard warriors are the worst. The whole HUB “theory” is literally tales from my ass.

 

[Dampf]

Both you and @Dampf need to get out here with this garbage. This shit should be ban worthy. It’s straight up slander. GPU vendor stans and keyboard warriors are the worst. The whole HUB “theory” is literally tales from my ass.

Jesus, calm down. It's like you took it personally. Both me and David provided many hard evidence for our theories. And yes of course those are just theories, nothing more. If that triggers you so much, then you don't have to read them.

Also stop spinning this into a GPU vendor fight. It's clearly not about AMD vs Nvidia, it's about Steve recommending the RDNA1 over Turing despite the fact that RDNA1 is an outdated architecture in comparison. It has zero to do with GPU vendor stans, zero. The 6600 is a much, much better buy than the 5700XT as well.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I assume he was referring to the fact that the consoles don't implement DX12U features on account of all the cross gen games. But when that ends and UE5 games start to flood the market, those features will be implemented more widely on consoles, and thus naturally on PC too. DX12 can't be avoided on PC as it's required (more or less) for Ray Tracing.

Wait, UE5 is a cross gen engine (as all Unreal Engines have been), why would that prevent developers from releasing cross gen versions of games if they wanted to?

Regards,
SB

 

[davis.anthony]

Wait, UE5 is a cross gen engine (as all Unreal Engines have been), why would that prevent developers from releasing cross gen versions of games if they wanted to?

Regards,
SB

I don't think you've understood what he's saying because from what I can see your reply has nothing to do with his reply.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Wait, UE5 is a cross gen engine (as all Unreal Engines have been), why would that prevent developers from releasing cross gen versions of games if they wanted to?

Regards,
SB

I didn't mean to link the rise of UE5 with the end of cross gen. Merely that cross gen will start to fade away naturally and UE5 games will start to ramp up over a similar period. And on next gen consoles the high end UE5 games will probably take much greater advantage of DX12U features which are fully supported by the engine.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I didn't mean to link the rise of UE5 with the end of cross gen. Merely that cross gen will start to fade away naturally and UE5 games will start to ramp up over a similar period. And on next gen consoles the high end UE5 games will probably take much greater advantage of DX12U features which are fully supported by the engine.

I can certainly see more advanced rendering being implemented due to UE5's popularity with developers.

That isn't orthogonal to cross-gen games, however. Basically more advanced rendering features doesn't necessarily mean less cross-gen games, you can have the latest and greatest rendering features in a cross-gen game. Cross-gen games will stop when developers fail to see a significant return on cross-gen game sales.

That said, I'm really interested to see how developers end up using UE5, especially indie and AA developers.

Regards,
SB

 

[dobwal]

Sadly not. But I believe that will change this month, some people are working to get their UE5 demos to version 5.1.

I mean, I would provide a compiled project slapping some trees and nanite assets together for everyone to test, but Preview 2 has some issues compiling the project. I guess we have to wait until the final release of UE5.1 is there, including compatible projects and assets.

This is indeed one of the things I am most curious about. It also raises the question if the Xbox Series will benefit from Mesh Shading support in UE5.1 titles massively over PS5. Nanite uses primitive shaders on PS5.

Why would it? Nanite only uses DX12's mesh shading or PS5 primitive shading on large triangles so their use will be only on a fraction of what they were designed to handle. Nanite based titles will probably be the least informative in trying to discern if there exists a performance gap between the two.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I can certainly see more advanced rendering being implemented due to UE5's popularity with developers.

That isn't orthogonal to cross-gen games, however. Basically more advanced rendering features doesn't necessarily mean less cross-gen games, you can have the latest and greatest rendering features in a cross-gen game. Cross-gen games will stop when developers fail to see a significant return on cross-gen game sales.

That said, I'm really interested to see how developers end up using UE5, especially indie and AA developers.

Regards,
SB

I agree but it's worth noting that any cross gen UE5 games will not be able to use Nanite (and I think Lumen but am not certain) on the last gen consoles. It'll be interesting to see whether PC's go current gen only or allow switching between both.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I agree but it's worth noting that any cross gen UE5 games will not be able to use Nanite (and I think Lumen but am not certain) on the last gen consoles. It'll be interesting to see whether PC's go current gen only or allow switching between both.

A few months back, the UE5 nanite documentation mentioned that Nanite was supported on PS5, XBS and PCs while nanite on PS4 and XBO was in an experimental stage. That wording has since been removed and I'm assuming that it means it is now supported. Alternatively, it's possible they cancelled work on Nanite for other platforms. Regardless the UE5 documentation no longer mentions what platforms nanite is supported on.

When doing a search you can still find search engine cached wording for the official UE5 Nanite page. This is what it used to say WRT PS4 and XBO...

PlayStation 4 and Xbox One also support Nanite, but support on these platforms is currently considered experimental. It is expected that the performance of Nanite on these platforms with very high fidelity content may not meet the requirements of a shippable game.

Regards,
SB

 

[pjbliverpool]

A few months back, the UE5 nanite documentation mentioned that Nanite was supported on PS5, XBS and PCs while nanite on PS4 and XBO was in an experimental stage. That wording has since been removed and I'm assuming that it means it is now supported. Alternatively, it's possible they cancelled work on Nanite for other platforms. Regardless the UE5 documentation no longer mentions what platforms nanite is supported on.

When doing a search you can still find search engine cached wording for the official UE5 Nanite page. This is what it used to say WRT PS4 and XBO...



Regards,
SB

Pretty interesting. Nanite of course was touted as being only made possible by the low latency of SSD's. If they've found a way around that then it makes a bit of a mockery of the original claim. I guess HDD's live to fight another day!

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Pretty interesting. Nanite of course was touted as being only made possible by the low latency of SSD's. If they've found a way around that then it makes a bit of a mockery of the original claim. I guess HDD's live to fight another day!

Pretty sure that was just wishful thinking by people due to its first public demonstration being on PS5. That was later debunked by UE5 developers showing that it can work on HDDs although it wasn't as performant as an SSD.

Hardware and Software Specifications for Unreal Engine | Unreal Engine 5.0 Documentation

There is no mention on that page WRT storage being a limiting factor or that it would require an SSD. You can scroll down to the end of the page to see Nanite specific requirements (no additional hardware requirements beyond what UE5 itself requires).

Regards,
SB

 

[DavidGraham]

Uncharted fixed the PC LOD issues.

• Improved LOD quality for High & Ultra texture quality settings
• Improved LOD fade using the enhanced model quality setting

Our Second Patch Is Live! :: UNCHARTED™: Legacy of Thieves Collection General Discussions

Patch v1.2 is live for Steam and EGS! Here are the details: General stability & performance improvements EGS ONLY: Fix for a crash on boot impacting Epic users Fix for a crash when interacting with the skeleton in the colony treasure vault Fix for a crash when pickpocketing the waiter in the...

steamcommunity.com

 

[pjbliverpool]

Pretty sure that was just wishful thinking by people due to its first public demonstration being on PS5. That was later debunked by UE5 developers showing that it can work on HDDs although it wasn't as performant as an SSD.

Hardware and Software Specifications for Unreal Engine | Unreal Engine 5.0 Documentation

There is no mention on that page WRT storage being a limiting factor or that it would require an SSD. You can scroll down to the end of the page to see Nanite specific requirements (no additional hardware requirements beyond what UE5 itself requires).

Regards,
SB

Nah there was literally an interview by Brian Karis specifically stating that Nanite was enabled by the low latency of SSD's. I'll try to find and post it over the weekend if I get a chance.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Nah there was literally an interview by Brian Karis specifically stating that Nanite was enabled by the low latency of SSD's. I'll try to find and post it over the weekend if I get a chance.

Sure there were also PR statements mentioning that UE5 was made possible by the power of the PS5. Just kindly ignore that in a video in China shortly after that, it was shown running on a developer's laptop.

There were even people on this forum that ran the first PC demo that was released on systems using a HDD. SSDs are recommended for Nanite at runtime but are not required as evidenced by many people who have run it off of a HDD in their system.

Regards,
SB