Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2022] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[techuse]

That is because of cross gen.

Now as cross gen slowly but surely ends, we can expect the use of DX12 Ultimate in games.

Time will tell if these GPUs have the performance to make them relevant at that point.

 

[Dampf]

Time will tell if these GPUs have the performance to make them relevant at that point.

The baseline for these games will always be the Series X/S and PS5 and you will always be able to adjust settings close to the consoles to get good performance.

 

[techuse]

The baseline for these games will always be the Series X/S and PS5 and you will always be able to adjust settings close to the consoles to get good performance.

Performance on PC GPUs doesn't necessarily hold up as optimization for older GPUs becomes non existent. Lowering the settings may negate any of the benefits DX12U brings. It also isn't clear to me how useful these features even really are. How often have GPUs historically benefitted from modern features when they are finally used 7 years later? Particularly when said GPUs they were only midrange at the time of release?

 

[davis.anthony]

Those features are irrelevant right now as no developer even uses them.

You're joking right?

 

[techuse]

You're joking right?

In the 4 years since Turing and RDNA 1 launched, what benefit has any consumer received from DX12U support? I'm referring to things like mesh shaders, sampler feedback etc.

 

[davis.anthony]

In the 4 years since Turing and RDNA 1 launched, what benefit has any consumer received from DX12U support?

That is completely irrelevant, let me remind you of your discussion....

Turing has HW-accelerated Raytracing, DP4a, Mesh Shaders, Sampler Feedback, VRS.

This was your response...

Those features are irrelevant right now as no developer even uses them

To say those features are 'irrelevant right now' because 'no developer even uses them' is one of the stupidest things I've seen someone say in this forum for a few months now.

• Developers aren't using HW-accelerated Raytracing? - How many games have RT now?
• Developers aren't using DPA4? - Intel XeSS uses this in actual released games
• Mesh shaders aren't being used by developers? - Used by UE5 for Nanite
• Sampler Feedback - This is the only one you have a case for
• VRS - Also used in released, retail games

So can you please explain your comment?

 

[Dampf]

A game right now where Turing and the consoles for that matter too benefit heavily over RDNA1 is Metro Exodus with its Enhanced Edition. It runs on high settings on a base 2060 @1440p60 with the help of DLSS. So you get much higher quality and performance even on a 2060 compared to a 5700XT. Hell, even Series S running at lower resolutions looks better thanks to its much improved lighting.

This version of the game looks a generation ahead of the old version that runs on RDNA1 and also has various others improvements. Same with Minecraft RTX and Quake 2 RTX.

But still, Techuse is right that we have no game today making use of Mesh Shaders and Sampler Feedback. The implementation of VRS in games right now is also irrelevant and it makes close to no difference, VRS has to be integrated more deeply into the game engine for that to happen.

Still, I suspect this is because most games are still developed with cross gen in mind. Regarding UE5.1, yes it does use Mesh Shading for Nanite when its rendering triangles bigger than a pixel. I wonder how much that influences performance. I guess it won't take long until someone updates their already existing UE5 demos (like that forest and Rally demo) to version 5.1 so we can benchmark for ourselves.

 

[davis.anthony]

A game right now where Turing and the consoles for that matter too benefit heavily over RDNA1 is Metro Exodus with its Enhanced Edition. It runs on high settings on a base 2060 @1440p60 with the help of DLSS. So you get much higher quality and performance even on a 2060 compared to a 5700XT.

This version of the game looks a generation ahead of the old version that runs on RDNA1 and also has various others improvements. Same with Minecraft RTX and Quake 2 RTX.

But still, Techuse is right that we have no game today making use of Mesh Shaders and Sampler Feedback. The implementation of VRS in games right now is also irrelevant and it makes close to no difference, VRS has to be integrated more deeply into the game engine for that to happen.

Still, I suspect this is because most games are still developed with cross gen in mind. Regarding UE5.1, yes it does use Mesh Shading for Nanite when its rendering triangles bigger than a pixel. I wonder how much that influences performance. I guess it won't take long until someone updates their already existing UE5 demos (like that forest and Rally demo) to version 5.1 so we can benchmark for ourselves.

There's a difference between claiming they're 'moot' due to low integration in games/engines and saying they're 'irrelevant' because no developers are using the features (Which is flat out wrong)

 

[techuse]

Obviously I wasn't referring to ray tracing, but the other features he listed. Mesh shaders isn't helping Turing outperform the 5700xt in the available UE5 demos and VRS hasn't provided any benefit when it has been used.

 

[davis.anthony]

Obviously I wasn't referring to ray tracing, but the other features he listed. Mesh shaders isn't helping Turing outperform the 5700xt in the available UE5 demos and VRS hasn't provided any benefit when it has been used.

So you need to work on your posts and explanations then as no point did you highlight you were talking about those two specific features.

And VRS has and does provide a small performance benefit in games, this is evidence by Digital Foundry comparison videos and other articles available on the internet.

The 5700XT won't be able to play the newest Avatar game, the RTX2060 will.

 

[techuse]

So you need to work on your posts and explanations then as no point did you highlight you were talking about those two specific features.

And VRS has and does provide a small performance benefit in games, this is evidence by Digital Foundry comparison videos and other articles available on the internet.

The 5700XT won't be able to play the newest Avatar game, the RTX2060 will.

DF reccomends using resolution scaling over VRS from the videos I have seen.

 

[davis.anthony]

DF reccomends using resolution scaling over VRS from the videos I have seen.

That, one again, is irrelevant and not on point.

You claimed......"VRS hasn't provided any benefit when it has been used"

OC3D's review of Resi Evil Village showed that VRS balanced mode can increase average frame rate by 10fps.

So to say it hasn't provided any benefit when it has been used is utterly false.

 

[techuse]

That, one again, is irrelevant and not on point.

You claimed......"VRS hasn't provided any benefit when it has been used"

OC3D's review of Resi Evil Village showed that VRS balanced mode can increase average frame rate by 10fps.

So to say it hasn't provided any benefit when it has been used is utterly false.

When it provides worse performance gain relative to visual loss than using resolution scaling? I beg to differ.

 

[Dampf]

In the future, VRS might be combined with DLSS/FSR2.

 

[DavidGraham]

Mesh shaders isn't helping Turing outperform the 5700xt in the available UE5 demos

Mesh Shaders is used in UE5.1, these demos need to compiled with UE5.1 version to use it.

 

[techuse]

Mesh Shaders is used in UE5.1, these demos need to compiled with UE5.1 version to use it.

Fair point, so the jury is still out or have there been any comparisons or info regarding performance?

 

[DavidGraham]

have there been any comparisons or info regarding performance?

Jury still out, Alex from DF is promising to revisit the Matrix demo in UE5.1 soon though.

 

[Dampf]

Fair point, so the jury is still out or have there been any comparisons or info regarding performance?

Sadly not. But I believe that will change this month, some people are working to get their UE5 demos to version 5.1.

I mean, I would provide a compiled project slapping some trees and nanite assets together for everyone to test, but Preview 2 has some issues compiling the project. I guess we have to wait until the final release of UE5.1 is there, including compatible projects and assets.

This is indeed one of the things I am most curious about. It also raises the question if the Xbox Series will benefit from Mesh Shading support in UE5.1 titles massively over PS5. Nanite uses primitive shaders on PS5.

 

[davis.anthony]

When it provides worse performance gain relative to visual loss than using resolution scaling? I beg to differ.

You stated it hasn't provided any benefit when turned on, this is false as it does and has.

You need to stop posting false claims which so far has been easily squashed as being nonsense.

 

[techuse]

You stated it hasn't provided any benefit when turned on, this is false as it does and has.

You need to stop posting false claims which so far has been easily squashed as being nonsense.

It provides about as much benefit as FSR does in a DLSS supported title.