It's like a different game! So glad I haven't tried to play it yet.
Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2022] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]
- Thread starter BRiT
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It's like a different game! So glad I haven't tried to play it yet.
So his findings:
- RT mode resolution is using DRS with a lower min resolution on XSX (~5% higher resolution on PS5)
- XSX seems to display at about 10% higher resolution in the perf mode but when it drops, it can drop as low as on PS5 (1160p)
- PS5 consistently performs same or better in the performance mode. When both game drops during walking, PS5 is usually 5fps higher (or it stays at 60fps while the other is at 55-60fps)
- VGTech didn't do much fast traversals while driving. He still found a more stable game on PS5 here (but he didn't stress test those scenes like DF did).
Overall I'd say PS5 and XSX versions perform very similarly with a slight edge to PS5 for better stability in the performance mode (while the ~10% resolution difference is very hard to spot).
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PS5 I/O is obviously not used in this game. And there are conflicting reports as PS5 can have a slight edge in loading times for others (NXGamer). But anyways both are very similar and probably limited by the game engine or / and CPU, not SSD raw speed.
About that. I do think VRS is used on XSS, but not on XSX. I think VGTech easily found VRS clues on XSS and assumed it was also used on XSX. Could be wrong though.
It would be intresting to see where the XSX performs when tested against pc gpu’s. Then we can see if its performing to its spec perhaps. But even then its hard to see relative perf there too since theres no truly equal pc part i think. RX6700 or rx6700xt (1TF above) maybe. Maybe DF can do some tests?
The more i watch those comparison videos the more i am convinced that there is something wrong with design of XSX. In many cases where games are compared XSX versions needs additional patches to run at least as good as ps5. This is very odd keeping in mind that slight TF advantage. And yes yes i know that Cerny said that TF dont matter but he said it when he was comparing ps4 to ps5, here we have (almost) same cpu same gpu no one really expect 3050 outperform 3060. There was speculations about tools/apis not being ready at launch, but we are approaching second year in life cycle and biggest software company in the world is not able to fix it? I doubt it. So i think they messed up something, thats why almost all games needs additional work and patching on XSX to perform good.
I am very impressed by both design approaches. Not sure whats going on with XSX but in the case of Cyberpank it has at least a little bit higher resolution in performance mode, which may be the reason.
Its interesting how MS managed to pack all that power in such small form with barely any noise produced by its performance, while Sony managed to reach in practice almost identical capabilities by going a different route.
To me it is bit more peculiar how much Sony invested in super fast SSD read and writes yet, the Series X in many games loads faster and the PS5 havent reached that level of loading times we were expecting before release.
The Series X appears to load faster cross gen and BC games in many cases. It shows some forward thinking with their smart delivery design.
yup. There's certainly enough data out here that suggests a trend: the series consoles architecture is not balanced to play all titles well. (Whereas PS5 is, as it follows directly from a 5700XT setup) Which is why we are seeing a lack of consistency here. The more fixed function usage there is, the less performance extracted from Series consoles. At least this is my thought process at the moment. VRS might be able to claw back some of that performance lost on the FF pipeline, but if a developer wanted to get the most out of a series console, they'd use the 3D pipeline as little as possible.
I don't know about that. As PS5 also slightly outperforms XSX in Matrix UE5 demo and that the most next-gen / compute bound engine we know off. And even there, Microsoft had to put their best men to work on that demo in order to optimize it on both Series consoles.
Apparently a couple of days after the 1.5 patch (P.C) there is another 62gb patch with no patch notes
https://www.gog.com/forum/cyberpunk_2077/there_is_some_new_62_gb_update
https://www.gog.com/forum/cyberpunk_2077/there_is_some_new_62_gb_update
Do you think mesh shader pipeline is the answer here?
Mesh Shader | DirectX-Specs (microsoft.github.io)
"This document describes a next-generation replacement for Vertex and Geometry shaders in a D3D12 pipeline called “Mesh shader”. Mesh shader support in D3D12 attempts to strike a balance between programmability and expressiveness, with efficient and intuitive implementations."
Or will this still fall behind because of FF shortcomings?
Those points are unrelated though. Getting the most out of XSX is about utilization of compute units, that doesn't mean there couldn't be bottlenecks elsewhere. Getting the most out of XSX doesn't mean PS5 can't perform well or vice versa. In particular the optimizations brought in to ensure memory issues were sorted on series consoles were also brought over to PS5.
The likelihood that PS5 can outperform XSX in a compute synthetic test is unlikely just going by the numbers. So if PS5 is outperforming XSX, it's gaining elsewhere (which there is a large number of areas that would need to be looked at). There's not really much more to say on the subject, this is a tech demo - far from optimized and it's unlikely that the test is repeatable in the demo for benchmarking purposes. (AI crowds, etc)
If UE5 is using mesh shaders / primitive shaders it's still making significant use of the 3D pipeline. We simply don't know enough to state that UE5 is the most compute bound engine. And it's worth noting that The Coalition's work on The Matrix demo also made the PS5 version faster - their optimisations were not limited to Series consoles, they included (and may indeed have been limited to) optimisations that were platform agnostic.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the XSX, it's just that software frequently still favours the narrower but faster 3D pipeline. The XSX is focused on compute and bandwidth, which clearly aren't currently the limiting factors in many games or else the Series X would be ahead.
Edit: I think XSX will be well set for a future with heavier use of ray traced lighting, shadows and reflections, and where compute is being leveraged for MLAA. Well, at least as any RDNA2 architecture is going to be at any rate...
Plus a lot of the Series consoles' performance saving / gaining features aren't even being used yet, they're still waiting for adoption or even support.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the XSX, it's just that software frequently still favours the narrower but faster 3D pipeline. The XSX is focused on compute and bandwidth, which clearly aren't currently the limiting factors in many games or else the Series X would be ahead.
Edit: I think XSX will be well set for a future with heavier use of ray traced lighting, shadows and reflections, and where compute is being leveraged for MLAA. Well, at least as any RDNA2 architecture is going to be at any rate...
Plus a lot of the Series consoles' performance saving / gaining features aren't even being used yet, they're still waiting for adoption or even support.
Mesh shaders is only about geometry generation and discard. Those are 2 aspects up front that could impact it; but later down the pipeline you have ROP issues, which is really where bottlenecks are going to form if there is a lot of overdraw or alpha effectrs. And from what we can see so far, ROPs are certainly lacking on XSX.
technically, if you look at the FF units, series consoles are narrower and slower than PS5. It's only the compute portion that is wider, but if compute isn't the bottleneck then...
Yeah, I was meaning narrow in terms of CUs per shader engine, faster in terms of FF (clock speed and all that).
I guess that for the PS5 ROPs, especially in terms of depth, PS5 is both wider and faster.
Is that what a 5700XT/rx6700 etc is doing?
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