Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

That would disqualify you from posting a lot of your posts, if you think that is the "golden standard people (and yourself) should follow....mirror, mirror on the wall...

 

I think it's for all playstation family and not just PS5. At least that was my understanding when they announced that Sony paid for all oodle kraken licenses for any game shipped with it. Oodle texture RDO is an avenue for exploration, but I haven't seen any developer talks to have an idea where to start. It's entirely possible that Sony mandates the usage of Oodle Kraken compression on all their titles (for new titles), as they can demand anything ultimately for their platform. So I definitely agree Sony could have the PS5 using as much of their technology available, and in a situation like Xbox, I don't see it being as likely because of their move to GDK, it just screams emphasis on reducing the barriers to supporting multiple platforms as opposed to single platform optimization.

 

I'd never noticed that before. Good shout. So the PSVR headset connects to the box by way of an HDMI cable and a camera cable.

Although you're right that the camera doesn't plug into the PSVR box, it looks like it could... if you wanted to use neither the camera nor the headset properly.

Now, will you two please kiss and make up? Or at least kiss? *dribbles*

 

According to a tweet by a RAD employee it was only for PS5, and PS4 devs would need an additional license. However in the meantime we started seeing some PS4 games getting faster loading times due to using Kraken (e.g. TLoU Remake IIRC), so those initial conditions might have changed in the meantime.

Here's the tweet in question:



Again: March 18 2020, it could have changed between that time and when the PS5 released.

 

The AUX port is a different shape. You can't plug the camera into it.

All of the games I know of that had the faster loading are first party titles. Sony may have a blanket license for all of it's studios.

 

You mean the PS4 games?
Sony stated Kraken is available for all PS5 developers, not only 1st parties.

 

Actually, RDO encoders have been available for a while, here is one with all BC formats support and free of charge from BASIS - https://github.com/richgel999/bc7enc_rdo
Not sure whether it's being used by PC or XBOX devs.

 

this could very well explain why:

PS4 and XBO are within a small range of file size of each other.
But PS5 and other the range is dramatically larger.

 

If TLoU remaster were converted to Kraken, it would have to download the entire game again.

control
mbl

I think it is time to accept the advantages that the PS5 has.

I don't see anyone denying the advantages of the xbox with retro.

 

We don't have an issue of acceptance. If you're going to have a discussion here, you should do better than that.
a) You don't know much of that file size is due to compression or lack of data duplication or rather you don't know how much there is to attribute to.
b) While it's great and dandy that I know PS5 is using this tech, but it's not great and dandy to assume Series consoles are so no one here knows what you're comparing really.

Lastly, if you assume all of the above (that XSX has much worse compression, no data duplication), PS5 should be lightyears ahead in loading times over Xbox. You couple 1/2 the bandwidth rate with 1/2 the compression rate (80GB vs 50GB), PS5 should be up to ~3-4x ahead in loading times. Which we have not seen. It's that simple really since CPU speeds are comparable.

 

Quoting:

"According to the official graph by RAD Game Tools, Kraken has 29% higher compression ratio over ZLIB (used in PS4 and other platforms), and does it 3-5x faster"



End Quote.

I would not call 29% "pretty close".

 

I didn't intend for it to be aggressive, this whole sodding conversation is just exasperating at this point. But it's kind of dickish to correct somebody with wrong information but I didn't feel to the need to call you a dick so cheers for that.

Peace!

 

To be fully inclusive, here is various datasets taken from http://www.radgametools.com/oodlekraken.htm

 

http://richg42.blogspot.com/2016/08/rads-ground-breaking-lossless.html

Compiler and optimization settings:

Visual Studio 2015 Community Edition, 14.0.25424.00 Update 3

/GS- /GL /W4 /Gy /Zc:wchar_t /Zi /Gm- /Ox /Zc:inline /fp: precise /WX- /Zc:forScope /arch:AVX /Gd /Oi /MT

Totals

Sorted by highest to lowest ratio:

Original 5374152762

brotli 1671777094
lzham 1676729104
kraken 1685750158
zstd 1686207733
bitknit 1707850562
mermaid 1834845751
zlib 1963751711
selkie 1989554820
lz4 2131656949

16% more compressed on kraken vs zlib on benchmarking. 16% more compression != 50% more compression.

Once again, I'm not saying kraken isn't doing work it certainly is. It's just that the spread is larger than the simple numbers, so what else are we not accounting for is the question. Not whether or not kraken has an effect.

 

That benchmark is just one case. RAD's numbers are averages on several tests. Besides that bench measures just compresion. Question is in some games you have to decompress on real time, so Zlib cannot use the same compression level for the same quality and quantity of assets.

 

All the questions you are making are correct; but why apply it against zlib but not have it apply against Kraken? They face identical challenges. Do you really think Kraken will always have 30% more compression ratio than zlib in every single scenario?

Even after looking at the spread of benchmarks posted by Brit -- I'm looking at Game7 benchmark and .exe7 benchmarks in particular. Even if it were as simple as just compression, 30% != 50% you still have 20% still missing.

You don't even know how large the game is fully uncompressed and you don't know the file sizes of both uncompressed, you can't even begin to determine how each algorithm did in it's compression - you only know the finalized compressed amount.

edit: ahh.. I see I messed up. It's 59.1 GB vs 72 GB. Not 50GB vs 79GB. A 13 not 30GB difference.

hmm it being this close, yes, it's highly probable it's just compression + container then.

 

This. It's so confusing to me how people are viewing this game positively.