Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Deleted member 11852]

The breakout box does object based 3D audio, social screen and some cinematic mode rendering. Some of those stuff are most probably why PSVR requires another cable.

So what do you think necessitates a whole second cable? To be clear, the social screen is simply de-stereoscoping PSVR game images for the TV and nothing to do with the data sent from the PSVR breakout box to the PSVR headset. Cinematic mode is simply being able to play any normal PS4 games, DVD or Blu-ray movies on the PSVR headset.

It needs 2 cables because it's more than just a head mounted display with speakers

PSVR is exactly just a head mounted display with speakers. Why do you think it's doing different than a TV? Sure, it's got a basic gyroscope but 3-axis at 120hz is under 2 kilobytes per second.

 

[iroboto]

So what do you think necessitates a whole second cable? To be clear, the social screen is simply de-stereoscoping PSVR game images for the TV and nothing to do with the data sent from the PSVR breakout box to the PSVR headset. Cinematic mode is simply being able to play any normal PS4 games, DVD or Blu-ray movies on the PSVR headset.


PSVR is exactly just a head mounted display with speakers. Why do you think it's doing different than a TV? Sure, it's got a basic gyroscope but 3-axis at 120hz is under 2 kilobytes per second.

isn't it just a separation of video and data feeds?

 

[Shortbread]

FYI, the AUX port is used for the Playstation camera.

 

[Deto]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1382064978149183490

 

[iroboto]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1382064978149183490

not sure if we are seeing the power of the SSD compression here (then again, not sure how to prove it).
XBO coming in at 45GB. I think from a compression perspective, Zlib and kraken is pretty close, the only major difference is the decompression speed.

That being said, I think Xbox titles will always be larger because of the container they must ship with, and according to the tweet the stadium creator is added as well. Not really sure how the claims are being made, but it's worthwhile to investigate further.

 

[BRiT]

Warframe patch for Xbox Series consoles hit and took the install size down from 44.74 GB to 30.19 GB.

Details @ https://forum.xboxera.com/t/xboxera-community-hangout-ot2-cracking-down-on-shitposting/6692/2056

 

[goonergaz]

Perhaps but the cost is 100% smaller on Xbox One, One S, One X, Series S and Series X with Game Pass.

Apparently not, apparently lots of people pay for game pass. Also, not so free when it’s removed and you have to buy it to continue to play.

 

[Globalisateur]

not sure if we are seeing the power of the SSD compression here (then again, not sure how to prove it).
XBO coming in at 45GB. I think from a compression perspective, Zlib and kraken is pretty close, the only major difference is the decompression speed.

That being said, I think Xbox titles will always be larger because of the container they must ship with, and according to the tweet the stadium creator is added as well. Not really sure how the claims are being made, but it's worthwhile to investigate further.

With Kraken you compress about 10% more than Zlib (source: Cerny). The container difference should explain the rest.

 

[iroboto]

With Kraken you compress about 10% more than Zlib (source: Cerny). The container difference should explain the rest.

ah okay. But 10% more shouldn't lead to a 25GB difference right? I don't think the containers are that large.

 

[BRiT]

ah okay. But 10% more shouldn't lead to a 25GB difference right? I don't think the containers are that large.

I wouldnt be surprised if devs did not alter their development pipeline when they could use the same pipeline for Xbox One, One S, One X, Series X|S, xCloud, and PC as opposed to running a different one for just Series X|S.

 

[Globalisateur]

ah okay. But 10% more shouldn't lead to a 25GB difference right? I don't think the containers are that large.

Yes, you are right I forgot about possible deduplication of data.

I wouldnt be surprised if devs did not alter their development pipeline when they could use the same pipeline for Xbox One, One S, One X, Series X|S, xCloud, and PC as opposed to running a different one for just Series X|S.

I think this is more problematic than this. I think on PS5 devs can deduplicate the data because all PS5 games will use the SDD while they can't do it on Xbox (even Series) and PC versions because those hardware can still use slow HDDs.

 

[iroboto]

I wouldnt be surprised if devs did not alter their development pipeline when they could use the same pipeline for Xbox One, One S, One X, Series X|S, xCloud, and PC as opposed to running a different one for just Series X|S.

possibly yea.
the differential is much larger than a container, and much larger than the compression difference. There aren't many areas to really look at here, except, one possible theory is that we are seeing asset duplication happening on Xbox platforms, and no asset duplication happening on PS5.

There's a lot of little things that could affect things here, but I suspect the pipeline for streaming on Series consoles are more nuanced than on PS5 (or possibly less mature, thus have no reason to invest to make the change), and so they went with a tried true method instead.

Or the GDK does not do a great job of supporting multiple asset streaming methods, and it's too big of PITA to want to expose that functionality while supporting last gen.

 

[BRiT]

I think on PS5 devs can deduplicate the data because all PS5 games will use the SDD while they can't do it on Xbox (even Series) and PC versions because those hardware can still use slow HDDs.

Not quite, They can do it for Xbox SeriesX|S pipeline since devs can guarantee it will be run from NVME on that hardware.

 

[Globalisateur]

Not quite, They can do it for Xbox SeriesX|S pipeline since devs can guarantee it will be run from NVME on that hardware.

Right, I must have forgot this. It's then like you said. It's much easier to do one version (without deduplication) for all versions (Series, XB1 and PC).

 

[Allandor]

Yes, you are right I forgot about possible deduplication of data.

I think this is more problematic than this. I think on PS5 devs can deduplicate the data because all PS5 games will use the SDD while they can't do it on Xbox (even Series) and PC versions because those hardware can still use slow HDDs.

They can, they just have to use the smart delivery feature and give the consoles different packages.
But I guess, they mostly won't do that. This is just a cost vs time issue. Is it small enough to don't cause more costs than ... release it. Simple as that.

 

[see colon]

PSVR is exactly just a head mounted display with speakers. Why do you think it's doing different than a TV? Sure, it's got a basic gyroscope but 3-axis at 120hz is under 2 kilobytes per second.

Different than a TV? I mean, it has a basic 3 axis gyroscope for starters. But it does require power like a TV would. I don't have specs to back this up, but I would assume the gyro, speakers, tracking lights and screen would need more power than HDMI is capable of supplying. So maybe you are right, it is just a HMD with speakers, and it needs to be plugged in for power. And data.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

FYI, the AUX port is used for the Playstation camera.

FYI the camera doesn't connect to the PSVR box at all, it connects directly to the PS4. The dual-connector cable on the front both connects to the PSVR headset as demonstrated in Sony's own PSVR setup video I posted above.

1 - PS4 to PSVR box HDMI cable.
2 - PS4 to PSVR box USB cable.
3 - PSVR box PSU cable.
4 - PSVR box to PSVR headset dual (HDMI/???) cable
The unnumbered cable is the HDMI cable from the PSVR box to the TV.

It would hugely help if people who obviously don't own a PSVR would stop posting about how it is setup.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

FYI the camera doesn't connect to the PSVR box at all, it connects directly to the PS4. The dual-connector cable on the front both connects to the PSVR headset as demonstrated in Sony's own PSVR setup video I posted above.

1 - PS4 to PSVR box HDMI cable.
2 - PS4 to PSVR box USB cable.
3 - PSVR box PSU cable.
4 - PSVR box to PSVR headset dual (HDMI/???) cable
The unnumbered cable is the HDMI cable from the PSVR box to the TV.

It would hugely help if people who obviously don't own a PSVR would stop posting about how it is setup.

That picture makes me want to eat spaghetti now.

Regards,
SB

 

[PSman1700]

That picture makes me want to eat spaghetti now.

Regards,
SB

Maybe the designers ate spaghetti at the time.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I think from a compression perspective, Zlib and kraken is pretty close, the only major difference is the decompression speed.

Kraken compresses about 10% more, but then Oodle Texture RDO compresses another 10% to 50% depending on how lossy the texture can get without perceptible differences.

I don't know if the Oodle license Sony provides for every PS5 SDK is including Oodle Texture on top of Kraken, but from some examples it looks like it is.
Or maybe Oodle Texture is being sold as a cheap upgrade to everyone who owns Kraken, leading some devs to just pay for that upgrade.


Regardless, we should expect most if not all Unreal Engine games in the future to just get these compression techniques, considering Epic recently bought RAD.