PS5 is missing 120z mode, that's a much more worrying trend than worse shadows. Even the Series S is capable of running more 120hz games.
Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]
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PS5 is missing 120z mode, that's a much more worrying trend than worse shadows. Even the Series S is capable of running more 120hz games.
snc
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as you wrote its bc, its not possible on ps5 run in bc 120fps mode
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Deleted member 11852
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This not not a trend but just a thing and is attributed to PS5 backwards compatibility modes not offering 120hz because neither PS4/Pro offer a 120hz mode.
Technically enhancing the performance and/or quality of previous generation games is an area where Microsoft are ludicrously far ahead of Sony. This is because other - in retrospect - fatter graphics APIs and virtaulised hardware.
Tkumpathenurple
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It definitely demonstrates the value of trying to get ahead of trends early. Sony should've pursued VRR, 120Hz, and 1440p output on the PS4 Pro, even if not many folks would've used it at the time.
It's foolish that they haven't. You never know how some clever developers somewhere are going to utilise the hardware. Like Gran Turismo 4 outputting at 1080i on the bloody PS2 (legends!)
It's foolish that they haven't. You never know how some clever developers somewhere are going to utilise the hardware. Like Gran Turismo 4 outputting at 1080i on the bloody PS2 (legends!)
Another big reason for adopting these types of technologies early is to get a stable and good implementation so that by the time it is mainstream you have a good understanding and solution.
VRR on the 1X may not have been perfect but it gave MS a much needed source of R&D around TV technologies.
I blame their TV business. I don't know about when their TVs first supported 120Hz but they still don't even support VRR.
Yeah, I agree. I was trying to point out flaws that clearly being caused by software limitations.
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Deleted member 11852
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In the case of running PS4 games on PS5, this is a limitation of hardware. Or rather the lack of an API in which to do anything smart. This made clear by 4A Games back in 2014. A bunch of graphics functions have no API on PS4, you're literally punching values into the GPU directly... 1970/1980s-style. I'll never forget that on the C64 memory address $53280 was mapped to the GPU register for the screen background colour and on the Amiga it was $DFF180.
I really don't know about that. They have APIs that can already push 1080p 120hz (PSVR on PS5 via BC) and as most games pushing 120hz on XSX are limited at 1080p (like that zombie game). I think if they really wanted to adapt their PSVR API for all the PS4 games, they could have done so and 1080p 120hz BC games could have being possible on PS5.
But it's like VRR on PS5, it's not a limitation of hardware. It's a lack of will from the main bosses because they don't see as a way to make quick and easy money for the next financial results.
I think there are probably more 120hz or VRR displays in homes now than there were TVs that supported 720p or 1080i in 2000/2001 (launch years of PS2 and Xbox). Hell, there are probably more VRR/120hz displays now than there were 480p TVs back then. This is a chicken and egg problem. Just because the displays don't exist doesn't mean that game systems shouldn't support forward looking features.
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Deleted member 11852
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The reason PS4 doesn't support 120hz to TVs still lacks uncertainty but there's enough information to piece it together. PS4 launched with a software HDMI 2.0a interface in November 2013, whilst the full HMDI 2.0 was not finalised until two months prior (September 2013) and commercial chipsets supporting HDMI 2.0 connections (particularly ~14Gbits/s bandwidth) weren't available until mid-2014. So unless Sony built their only HDMI controller (which they don't do for their TVs) then the PS4 HDMI interface is probably limited at HDMI 1.4 clocks (~8Gbits/s). Whilst this is sufficient bandwidth to transmit a 120hz video signal, it's tight when you consider you also need bandwidth for other features like the audio that your TV or receiver support. PSVR is entirely a known quantity and the PSVR breakout boxes does some of the heavy lifting for 3D positioning audio.
The original Xbox One also does not support 120hz mode, it's only a feature on One S and One X which both have HDMI 2.x connectors.
Lack of API is a software limitation no?
Yeah, I guess. But it is also like complaining your Ford Model T isn't getting a software patch when there is literally no software interface. Clearly GNM has some 'fat' APIs where you pass a bunch of data to a software API which does something with the before punching other data into CPU registers but we also know a bunch do not, they literally map through memory right to the GPU.
Sure, this is Sony's design and the consequences of this is their to own but It's not an issue that is caused particularly by hardware or software, just inherent design.
So the only question is: on top of 1080p 120hz can PS4 HDMI also ouputs stereo audio (so HRTF is possible) at the same time? If yes then there is no hardware limitation.
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Deleted member 11852
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What does HTRF have to do with anything? The question you need answering is on top of the 120Hz video signal, is there sufficient bandwidth for audio? Since this is massively variable depending on your A/V setup and settings for audio output on PS4, the answer could yes, maybe or no. It might even be a flat no.
Also ask yourself, if you don't think PS4 HDMI connector isn't a hardware limitation, then presumably the same would be true for Xbox as well which launched at exactly the same time and which also does not support 120Hz output even though the One S and the One X - both with HDMI 2.x connectors both do. Why would Microsoft do that? They busted their asses off last generation to cram more and more features into their hardware over time.
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PS4 uses an FPGA as an HDMI controller which is how they support 120hz (for VR) and HDR on hardware produced before those were standardized features. And we know PS4 can output 120hz with audio because it does it with VR. 120hz was just never exposed for use with standard displays, which may be hardware limitation (do we know if PSVR conforms to true HDMI standards for it's 120hz modes) or it could simply be a thing that Sony didn't feel was necessary to support.
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Do you know what audio format PS4 outputs to the PSVR breakout box? That is important. Some folks tried capturing the PS4 HDMI signal (intercepting the signal between PS4 and the PSVR breakout box) and the signal is not a standard 120hz HDMI. Remember the PS4 is producing the reprojected wide-field stereoscopic video image (the PSVR box reverses this for output to the TV).
I have no idea what audio format they use for PSVR, but honestly, I don't think it's terribly important. It couldn't be less than plain old stereo and if you limited the audio quality when you enabled 120hz that wouldn't be the end of the world.
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Deleted member 11852
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It can't be plain stereo because the PSVR box needs audio in a format that allows it to produce the 3D positional audio for the headset. Uncompressed multichannel audio can consumes quite a lot of bandwidth.
I am certain the reason PS4 doesn't support 120hz 1080p is the same reason the original Xbox One doesn't: insufficient HDMI bandwidth. If a method could have been found to make it work, Microsoft would have supported it on the original hardware.
You are wholly mistaken if you think Sony would act the same way as Microsoft. What's the reason the PS5 doesn't support VRR yet? Is it because of a hardware limitation?
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