Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[scently]

Not tech demos, games. I keep seeing DF report games on Series S delivering way under 1080p when the expectation was 1440p. In many games, we're closer to half the 1440p target than 1440p itself. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Please do show me a game that runs at sub 1080p on the XSS when the PS5 and XSX are running at 4k. As for being marketed as 1440p, again I will say that the XSS is about as 1440p device as the PS5 and XSX are 4k devices. There are quite a few 1440p titles on it.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Please do show me a game that runs at sub 1080p on the XSS when the PS5 and XSX are running at 4k.

What does the average resolution of games running on Series X (or PS5) have to do with some games running at sub-1080p on Series S?

If you have a Series S, you get the resolution games offer. It's of no consolation that Series X may not also hit full 4K. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[dobwal]

I surmise that things like FSR and and other SS techniques will buy the XSS some breathing room. The first implemention of FSR on the XB just released back at the end of Aug. I imagine more and more devs will lean on such solutions as they aren't required to basically roll their solution like in generations past.

 

[scently]

What does the average resolution of games running on Series X (or PS5) have to do with some games running at sub-1080p on Series S?

If you have a Series S, you get the resolution games offer. It's of no consolation that Series X may not also hit full 4K. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean its self-explanatory from what I wrote. These consoles don't exist in isolation....

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I mean its self-explanatory from what I wrote. These consoles don't exist in isolation....

You tried to restrict the validity of the observation of low resolutions in Series S games as only valid when the same games hit full 4K on other consoles. Nothing exists in isolation, that doesn't mean a person's experience of consuming something should be inexplicably tied to something else that they may not be able to experience.

If games are hitting low resolutions on Series S but run at acceptably high (but not 4K) on other consoles, does that make the low resolutions on Series S better, or the observation invalid? Of course it doesn't.

 

[scently]

I mean if you can't see why the Series S can run certain games at less than 1080p when said games run around 1440p or so on the 4k consoles then I don't know what to tell you. The Series S does not exist in isolation. To critic its performance/resolution profile you have to do so in relation to what is going on with the 4k consoles. Power/performance is relative. Context is needed.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I mean if you can't see why the Series S can run certain games at less than 1080p when said games run around 1440p or so on the 4k consoles then I don't know what to tell you.

It seems clear why Series S has to run run games at sub-HD resolutions, it's underpowered. It has a CPU more than capable of running games at 60 (and 120) fps but a GPU/memory subsystem that is closer to the ballpark of 2016's PS4 Pro which was mostly running games at 30fps. All of this would have been fine if it wasn't for the "1440p target" comms. It can certainly do 1440p (and higher) but in moderately demanding games not at 60fps.

You post like this was always obvious but it definitely wasn't, even on this forums. It feels like a year in the little console is already overstretched.

 

[scently]

It seems clear why Series S has to run run games at sub-HD resolutions, it's underpowered. It has a CPU more than capable of running games at 60 (and 120) fps but a GPU/memory subsystem that is closer to the ballpark of 2016's PS4 Pro which was mostly running games at 30fps. All of this would have been fine if it wasn't for the "1440p target" comms. It can certainly do 1440p (and higher) but in moderately demanding games not at 60fps.

You post like this was always obvious but it definitely wasn't, even on this forums. It feels like a year in the little console is already overstretched.

It is obvious. It is overstretched just a little more than the 4k twins. To achieve a better quality of pixels/performance, the quantity of pixels has to be reduced. And it was obvious. It is not a situation unique to the XSS. It's like asking also why the 4k twins are rendering some games below 4k? I mean the answer is fairly obvious...

I say context is needed because the games in which the XSS runs at sub 1080p, the 4K twins run those games at sub 4k.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

And it was obvious. It is not a situation unique to the XSS. It's like asking also why the 4k twins are rendering some games below 4k? I mean the answer is fairly obvious...

It was not obvious. Nobody was seriously speculating that Series S was going to be delivering sub-1080p resolution games. Not always hitting 1440p? Sure. Occasionally drop to 1080p? Sure. To rarely hit 1080p? I didn't see anybody predict that.

If you're claiming they were, please do link to that.

 

[scently]

It was not obvious. Nobody was seriously speculating that Series S was going to be delivering sub-1080p resolution games. Not always hitting 1440p? Sure. Occasionally drop to 1080p? Sure. To rarely hit 1080p? I didn't see anybody predict that.

If you're claiming they were, please do link to that.

I don't need to link anything actually. This is a tech forum. It is very obvious. The XSS isn't made of magic and fairly dust. Its performance could be deduced the moment its specs were unveiled. And context is always going to be important.

 

[techuse]

Series X targets 4K with 12 TFLOPS. Why would anyone expect a 4 TFLOP console of the same family to target 1440p? Always seemed fairly cut and dry that this would primarily be a 1080p targeting console.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Series X targets 4K with 12 TFLOPS. Why would anyone expect a 4 TFLOP console of the same family to target 1440p? Always seemed fairly cut and dry that this would primarily be a 1080p targeting console.

I feel there is a heavy dose of with-the-benefit-of-hindsight on the 1440p vs 1080p (or sub-HD) issue. I mean who would think the Series S was a viable 1440p console?

Indeed. XSS is more viable as a 1440p console if PS5 is the lead console at native 4k. Incidentally, the XSS has exactly half the bandwidth of the PS5.

I couldn't recall anybody speculating speculating sub-HD resolutions on Series S. Including DigitalFoundry so let's not overplay the technical prophecies that were "obvious" but that nobody voiced.

 

[scently]

I feel there is a heavy dose of with-the-benefit-of-hindsight on the 1440p vs 1080p (or sub-HD) issue. I mean who would think the Series S was a viable 1440p console?



I couldn't recall anybody speculating speculating sub-HD resolutions on Series S. Including DigitalFoundry so let's not overplay the technical prophecies that were "obvious" but that nobody voiced.

You could dig up even more or my old post if you want, still doesn't take away from my point. Graphics is always a tradeoff between the quality and quantity of the pixels on the screen. And context will always be needed when saying something like why the XSS renders at sub 1080p.

 

[techuse]

I feel there is a heavy dose of with-the-benefit-of-hindsight on the 1440p vs 1080p (or sub-HD) issue. I mean who would think the Series S was a viable 1440p console?



I couldn't recall anybody speculating speculating sub-HD resolutions on Series S. Including DigitalFoundry so let's not overplay the technical prophecies that were "obvious" but that nobody voiced.

Speaking for myself, I always thought the console would struggle. Since launch I've seen it in the same light I saw Xbox One in its time frame.

 

[zed]

Series X targets 4K with 12 TFLOPS. Why would anyone expect a 4 TFLOP console of the same family to target 1440p? Always seemed fairly cut and dry that this would primarily be a 1080p targeting console.

Cut and dry? MS used to advertise it as a 1440p console, OK I think they did drop that claim later but still

btw WRT series S, not a 30 euro discount now (which they were offering for blackfriday week) but its still 20 euros off and also I see series X is currently available (prolly not for long) so Europeans if you want it for christmas, heres a heads up
https://www.mediamarkt.es/es/category/consolas-xbox-series-x-y-s-8432.html

edit: why advertise 1440p, arent 99% TVs nowadays 4k/2160p or 1080p?
Yeah just looked on the website where I usually shop, Zero tvs with 1440p, Oh sure you can play on a monitor, but still its usually TVs & consoles vs PCs & monitors
Also only a single 720p TV,

 

[techuse]

Cut and dry? MS used to advertise it as a 1440p console, OK I think they did drop that claim later but still

btw WRT series S, not a 30 euro discount now (which they were offering for blackfriday week) but its still 20 euros off and also I see series X is currently available (prolly not for long) so Europeans if you want it for christmas, heres a heads up
https://www.mediamarkt.es/es/category/consolas-xbox-series-x-y-s-8432.html

edit: why advertise 1440p, arent 99% TVs nowadays 4k/2160p or 1080p?
Yeah just looked on the website where I usually shop, Zero tvs with 1440p, Oh sure you can play on a monitor, but still its usually TVs & consoles vs PCs & monitors
Also only a single 720p TV,

You know well enough not to put any stock in marketing.

 

[zed]

Oh sure, But Im curious why 1440p (sure bigger = better in marketing) but 3 or 4 years ago or whenever the series s was being planned, were tv manufacturers originally gonna start making 1440p sets? when didnt turn out they jumped wholehog from 1080p to 2160p

 

[AlphaWolf]

Oh sure, But Im curious why 1440p (sure bigger = better in marketing) but 3 or 4 years ago or whenever the series s was being planned, were tv manufacturers originally gonna start making 1440p sets? when didnt turn out they jumped wholehog from 1080p to 2160p

Are you seriously asking, at b3d, why you would want to render at other than the output resolution?

 

[zed]

Are you seriously asking, at b3d, why you would want to render at other than the output resolution?

No Im wondering why they were marketing it as a 1440p device when there were no 1440p TVs.
I always assumed there were 1440 tvs, yes naive of me, but like Ive said here multiple times, I never watched tv from 1999 till about 3 years ago, when I came to spain, I don't keep up with these things as they dont interest me.
Yes I know TVs/consoles can do scaling, before you ask

just had a google for 1440p tvs

4th answer down (after stuff about there being no 1440p tvs) is someone looking for a 1440p tv for his series S
https://www.avforums.com/threads/budget-tv-for-series-s-ideally-1440p-120hz-uk.2376931/

 

[techuse]

No Im wondering why they were marketing it as a 1440p device when there were no 1440p TVs.
I always assumed there were 1440 tvs, yes naive of me, but like Ive said here multiple times, I never watched tv from 1999 till about 3 years ago, when I came to spain, I don't keep up with these things as they dont interest me.
Yes I know TVs/consoles can do scaling, before you ask

just had a google for 1440p tvs

4th answer down (after stuff about there being no 1440p tvs) is someone looking for a 1440p tv for his series S
https://www.avforums.com/threads/budget-tv-for-series-s-ideally-1440p-120hz-uk.2376931/

The audience who would receive the 1440p marketing probably have some monitor penetration among them. If not they will just see it as some free supersampling for their 1080p. Also implies headroom for the future as games get more demanding.