Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[see colon]

I don't know about playstation consoles, but all Xbox consoles support 24hz output. And I believe most TVs sold in America have 24hz support. If those cutscenes are being output as a video file, then it would look perfectly fine on Xbox consoles (assuming your TV supports 24hz).

Yeah but then you'd have to play the game at 24hz.

I do wonder, however, if you set the output to 30hz if games without a 30fps lock that run in the 35-40fps range would feel better, or if the frames would be displayed with incorrect frame pacing. A bit off topic here, but ever since Xbox 360, and especially with the VGA cable, there were a bunch of video mode supported on Xbox consoles, and some games render at different resolutions or misbehave altogether at certain modes. I remember a few games running smoother at lower resolutions. I think GRAW was one of them but I can't remember exactly. I also remember Yourself Fitness, one of the first fitness games released for the original Xbox that was BC on 360 looked fine at 480p and 720p but was washed out and blurry at 1024*768. I had my 360 hooked up to a PC monitor at the time and ran games at different resolutions all the time. I wouldn't mind a video on game performance at different display modes is what I'm saying, but it would be a lot of work.

 

[Globalisateur]

One has to wonder where all the processing power is going.

Sure looking at the locked framerate they probably could have aimed for a higher resolution and use for instance a DRS. But I'd say it has at least the advantage of avoiding any ugly final bilinear upscaling (from instance from 1440p to 4K). At least there is that.

But I still would like another analysis confirming that report as many previous COD were reconstructed from half native res, not quarter. We have previously seen similar mistakes done before because of surprising reasons.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I do wonder, however, if you set the output to 30hz if games without a 30fps lock that run in the 35-40fps range would feel better, or if the frames would be displayed with incorrect frame pacing.

Aren't all console games VSynced nowadays? An unlocked game that would otherwise run in the 35-40FPS range just runs at 30FPS because of VSync.
You would see framepacing issues if that same game was able to render frames at less than 16.67ms, because it would jump between 30 and 60 FPS. If it's stuck in the 35-40FPS range then it's still just doing 30 FPS / Hz due to VSync.

Just to summarize:

Framerate lock: telling the engine to never go above X FPS (e.g. locking at 30 FPS means only sending a new frame every 33ms).
Vertical Synchronization: telling the engine to only send a new frame whenever the panel refreshes its image (e.g. on a 60Hz TV: if frame is done after 16.67ms then send frame, else wait another 16.67ms). This is done to avoid tearing (part of the image with frame N and the other with frame N+1).


Example 1: Bloodborne is framerate locked at 30 FPS, so when running that 30 FPS PS4 game on the PS5 BC it just runs at the same resolution and framerate as the original PS4.
Example 2: Until Dawn has its framerate unlocked, so when running that 30 FPS PS4 game on the PS5 BC it runs at 60FPS which is the BC's VSync limit.

But I still would like another analysis confirming that report as many previous COD were reconstructed from half native res, not quarter. We have previously seen similar mistakes done before because of surprising reasons.

Did the previous CODs target 60 FPS on the consoles?

I suppose temporal reconstruction works much better at 60 FPS than it does at 30 FPS, because the reconstruction engine can use twice the amount of N-x frames to produce frame N, within the same period of time.
This is also something that might be only doable on a console where the turning speed is limited by the gamepad sticks, and if they tried it on a PC with a fast mouse we'd see lots of temporal artifacts if the player did e.g. a fast 180º in the PoV.

 

[see colon]

Aren't all console games VSynced nowadays? An unlocked game that would otherwise run in the 35-40FPS range just runs at 30FPS because of VSync.

If they were all VSynced we wouldn't have screen tearing. And consoles sometimes do strange things when set to strange video modes. Would they sync to 30hz and display 30 fps, or would they target 60 and discard the frames that aren't required and output a jittery 30fps with inconsistent movement between frames. I guess that isn't frame pacing per say, but it wouldn't be correct.

Did the previous CODs target 60 FPS on the consoles?

Every one on 360 and PS3 upwards, excluding the Wii titles and COD 3 on PS3 targeted 60. I can't remember if the WiiU titles did 60 when in dual screen multiplayer, though.

 

[Riddlewire]

Yeah but then you'd have to play the game at 24hz.

The Xbox isn't capable of switching refresh rate depending on the needs of the content being displayed?
That's weird. It does it whenever you insert a blu-ray. And every time you use VRR.
Perhaps the developers wanted to keep it simple and remain at 60hz the entire time. I don't know. But I do believe that the console is at least capable of switching to a different refresh rate while playing a game.

 

[Allandor]

The Xbox isn't capable of switching refresh rate depending on the needs of the content being displayed?
That's weird. It does it whenever you insert a blu-ray. And every time you use VRR.
Perhaps the developers wanted to keep it simple and remain at 60hz the entire time. I don't know. But I do believe that the console is at least capable of switching to a different refresh rate while playing a game.

24.xHz is normally not present in a game. I guess it would be doable if the xbox API has such a switch (because the hardware supports it).

I also never understood why developers won't support a 50Hz mode for their games. All HDTVs should support that, not only in PAL region (because of 24.x Hz movie playback). It would make some games much better, that cannot reach 60fps but are always above 50fps.
R&C did this with the 40fps mode for 120Hz TVs. A 50fps mode would have been possible for years now.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

If they were all VSynced we wouldn't have screen tearing.

Which games have screen tearing on console?

 

[Cynicalking]

Which games have screen tearing on console?

There’s a lot of games with screen tearing/ adaptive vsync on consoles. Right at this moment I’m playing Warframe on PS5 and it tears when the frame rate drops.

 

[see colon]

Which games have screen tearing on console?

There are a bunch, but from recent memory Assassin's Creed Valhalla launched with lots of tearing on Xbox Series consoles, later fixed up with a patch.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

There are a bunch, but from recent memory Assassin's Creed Valhalla launched with lots of tearing on Xbox Series consoles, later fixed up with a patch.

This is completely new to me. I can't remember the last time I saw tearing on a console game on the PS4, let alone the PS5..

At least throughout the past year, I played Death Stranding, AC Odyssey, Watchdogs Legion, The Division 2, Dead Army 4, Plague Tale Innocence, Days Gone, Demon's Souls Remastered, It Takes Two, Sackboy Adventures, Astrobot and probably I'm missing some, but I didn't see tearing in any of these titles.

Perhaps I was just lucky.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm engaging full mod powers to stop debating NXGamer. Discuss the points raised in his videos if they are tech worthy of discussion in this Game Analysis Technical Discussion thread. Subsequent posts about a personality will be removed.

 

[dobwal]

This is completely new to me. I can't remember the last time I saw tearing on a console game on the PS4, let alone the PS5..

At least throughout the past year, I played Death Stranding, AC Odyssey, Watchdogs Legion, The Division 2, Dead Army 4, Plague Tale Innocence, Days Gone, Demon's Souls Remastered, It Takes Two, Sackboy Adventures, Astrobot and probably I'm missing some, but I didn't see tearing in any of these titles.

Perhaps I was just lucky.

Probably lucky. LOL. I have to concentrate real hard to see tearing unless a game has a ton of it.

gsync demo showing tearing in a Batman title at 40 secs in. I would of missed it if I was playing the title as my eyes don’t naturally pick out inconsistencies.

 

[Davros]

question : does gysnc make the gfx card match the monitor or the monitor match the gfx card

 

[techuse]

question : does gysnc make the gfx card match the monitor or the monitor match the gfx card

Monitor matches the graphics card as that is where the variability lies.

 

[Karamazov]

Which games have screen tearing on console?

the most recent one i played is far cry 6 on PS5, in some places you can see a lot of tearing.

 

[snc]

the most recent one i played is far cry 6 on PS5, in some places you can see a lot of tearing.

can confirm

 

[snc]

 

[Globalisateur]

In the beginning looking at the same spot PS4 (1080p at 28fps) vs Pro (1800p at 33fps) I think they use CBR to reach 1800p on Pro as 1800p is pushing ~2.8x more than 1080p while the Pro runs even slighty better. Even exclusive CBR 4K (~1530p) games often have trouble running the same as PS4 games at 1080p and many multiplat games, even exclusives like Gran Turismo S, actually aim for only 1800p CBR when PS4 runs at 1080p.

But a game running at 1800p CBR on Pro would be consistent with a tad better performance than PS4 at 1080p. Interestingly the Pro BC game on PS5 should run quite better than the native PS5 version (usually native 1620p + higher settings in FPS mode).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The ID buffer of PS4Pro was ditched in PS5, right? Any ideas why?

 

[Globalisateur]

The ID buffer of PS4Pro was ditched in PS5, right? Any ideas why?

We don't know that. As all Pro games supporting CBR seem to work perfectly well on PS5 I think they could have repurposed ID buffer to do Pro BC stuff and others specific tasks on PS5. But that's only wild speculation.

But anyways from the publisher we know Elden Ring does use checkerboard rendering on Pro (like Sekiro). So on PS5 the Pro BC game must run really well indeed at only 1800p CBR (native ~1275p + CBR cost) instead of native resolution (?1620p-2160p?). From Bandai Namco:

Elden Ring Specs and Compatibility
...PS4Pro Up to 3200x1800P ... (with Checkerboard)

https://service-en.bandainamcoent.eu/app/detail/a_id/5459/m/ELDEN RING/t/Elden Ring Specs & Compatibility/kw/elden ring