I agree, but my point concerned the XB1/XBX. Unless a game is purely GPU limited, the X should not be a more viable option than the XB1 for next gen games...
Could next gen consoles focus mainly on CPU?
- Thread starter Theeoo
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I agree, but my point concerned the XB1/XBX. Unless a game is purely GPU limited, the X should not be a more viable option than the XB1 for next gen games...
I would think it largely comes down to downward pricing pressure. Your not going to have a $500 xbox one x forever. Right now I think the xbox one is down to $200 or $250 . So when the XOX drops to $400 the XO has to hit a lower price point. At some point they wont be able to drop the cost of that system anymore so it will exit stage left even. So at that point why continue to push out product for something your not selling anymore ? Why spend more money to support that. At that point they will want you to move on to the xbox next.
HBRU
Regular
ps4 is different from ps3, ps2 becouse of a) the existence of the pro wich suggests a pro2 can come b) the not so big possible advancements with silicon c) market going online (see MS pass) so having big hw installed base can sustain also selling old games for cheap montly fees but relevan with subscribers numbers... d) possibilty to use maybe till to half of orig ps4 gpu for cpu-like tasks (keeping res to 720p on vanilla ps4) for forward compatibility...
also meltdown, spectre and criptocurrencies boom will keep new silicon expensive for quite long time... So maybe a pro2 can come at 500 or 600 dollars with 16 giga gddr6 and 3 ghz Jaguars CPU with a 256 bit bus and max 10 teraflops GPU.. but the full forward compatibility is a must... This console can targhet a 1800pCB->4k@60 fps but same game that runs on vanilla PS4 @720p
also meltdown, spectre and criptocurrencies boom will keep new silicon expensive for quite long time... So maybe a pro2 can come at 500 or 600 dollars with 16 giga gddr6 and 3 ghz Jaguars CPU with a 256 bit bus and max 10 teraflops GPU.. but the full forward compatibility is a must... This console can targhet a 1800pCB->4k@60 fps but same game that runs on vanilla PS4 @720p
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Megadrive1988
Veteran
I highly doubt that will happen.
Tkumpathenurple
Veteran
It does get me thinking though: will AMD, Sony, and MS invest in 7nm Jaguar?
I've read that hyperthreads aren't that useful for running games. Does that mean, if Sony/Microsoft release a slim Pro/X, they would need to use a 7nm Jaguar or an 8 core Zen?
Or could a sufficiently fast, 4 core Zen - with sufficiently fast hyperthreads - run code intended for 6.5 Jaguar cores? In theory at least.
I've read that hyperthreads aren't that useful for running games. Does that mean, if Sony/Microsoft release a slim Pro/X, they would need to use a 7nm Jaguar or an 8 core Zen?
Or could a sufficiently fast, 4 core Zen - with sufficiently fast hyperthreads - run code intended for 6.5 Jaguar cores? In theory at least.
Not as useful. I'm not sure about aren't useful. They're great for operating systems. But in a game scenario, where the developer has full control over the threads and what they're doing, they can optimize them very well. With Hyperthreading, there provides some leeway for bad code, in that stalled processes in the CPU can still recover some of that time by switching over to a new process. But if there is no other process to switch to because they've already optimized it, it's not really going to be that much better.
That being said, any scenario where if the technology is good enough, ie. OOE for the Jaguar vs the in-order of last gen, if it's good enough then you waste less time fighting the technology and you can focus on pushing out a better game.
The same will probably apply here. Instead of having these huge parallel job systems and structures, you might just be able to toss things on a different threads at let the CPU sort it out. Saves a lot of time and it lets developers with less technical savvy extract more performance out of the hardware.
If you're referring to PC benchmarks, the problem with that comparison is that desktop CPUs have truckloads more power than consoles per thread anyway, and it depends on how well multi-threaded the engine is to begin with.
Hypothetically. Realistically there'll be many games that just can't go to those extents. Supporting the indie scene is very important for both console makers, and if one machine can run Unity games far, far better than the other, I think that'd be a bit noteworthy. Designing a console based solely on what your elite first-parties will do with it would be a Bad Idea.
Well, that's an extreme case, but the problem here is, those characters are all the same, ugly (from a graphical standpoint). If you want to animate all this with some differences here and there and with a current graphic-style you are GPU-limited quite fast.
A much stronger CPU would not necesseraly mean more 60fps games... there were 30fps games on PS1 and they still exist on PS4. You can expect more complex worlds but that's all.
The framerate is tied to the developper goals, not the hardware... also i doubt that we will see a much more complex AI if that translates in much more difficult games. Developers want to sell their games to the mass market.
Sony and MS know that and, once again, they will likely put their best efforts on the GPU side. People primarily want pretty graphics.
But if we reach a point where there is a strong visual diminish return on 30fps games, we could see more 60fps games. Let's not forget that 60fps games tend to be less complex though.
The framerate is tied to the developper goals, not the hardware... also i doubt that we will see a much more complex AI if that translates in much more difficult games. Developers want to sell their games to the mass market.
Sony and MS know that and, once again, they will likely put their best efforts on the GPU side. People primarily want pretty graphics.
But if we reach a point where there is a strong visual diminish return on 30fps games, we could see more 60fps games. Let's not forget that 60fps games tend to be less complex though.
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HBRU
Regular
so easy Indie games development is the argument for Sony and MS to abbandon Jaguars.... Ok... but who let them make money Big Studios or Indie ? ... Wishfull thinking is a good thingh sometimes, but maybe missleading... Also AMD may have the interest to go with 16 thread capable sistems (16 jaguars ?) for letting then 16 thread Ryzens to be newely buyed on PC realm...
Isn't that a good thing ? One of the things that separate Consoles from most mobile games (tablet / phones) is the complexity. So a beefier CPU enabling more complex worlds is a good thing. The other platforms wont be able to compete with that and the graphics side.
I would wager the new APU's from AMD are far more powerful than the ps4/xbox one cpu wise and would be close to them in GPU power and only use 15 watts of power. IF sony / ms taking the aging Jaguar how far can they go with it ? Would 8 cores at 3ghz be possible ? Would it scale to 12 physical cores and 3ghz ? could they go further ?
But what about Zen on the other hand ? Updates are actively being worked on it , we have Zen + then we have Zen 2 and Zen 3 in the pipe line. Zen 2 is already released. So how would an 8 core 3ghz jaguar compare to a 3ghz Zen + or Zen 2 either one 8 core 16 thread ?
I would love to see MS go with an xo APU as a display pane like they have now. Have that APU handle everything to do with the OS … Just a nice small APU . Then have a full Zen with Navi or whatever is after navi and just let the devs have full access. Have the xo apu handle the OS , security , recording all that and let the new APU do everything else.
All games. 1) You never know what's going to important - PUBG is an indie game made by a studio with a generic engine and no experience of low-level console optimisation. 2) It's about supporting the developers. PS4 was built from the ground up to support the developers in making games (making it as easy as possible for them) which is why it's so successful. PS3 was built from the ground up to be uncompromisingly awesome hardware such that the devs would have to deserve to get good games out of it, and it ended up very compromised and often with inferior ports.
Megadrive1988
Veteran
There will always be 30fps and 60fps games.
I think the next gen consoles will strike a better balance between CPU and GPU, by using Zen 2/+ and 10-12 TFlop Navi-based GPUs with custom features.
but they won't just "mainly focus on CPU".
I think the next gen consoles will strike a better balance between CPU and GPU, by using Zen 2/+ and 10-12 TFlop Navi-based GPUs with custom features.
but they won't just "mainly focus on CPU".
