*Console Display Calibration Issues

Well... I spent the whole evening playing around with my TV (a top of the range plasma released last year) and also researching the TV itself on the internet. Cause I obviously have nothing better to do in my spare time.

Turns out the EU version of this supposedly amazing TV - and in fairness, it is really amazing and was voted best TV last year or whatever - has been, for lack of a better word, mutilated and won't even have an option for full/limited RGB input. The US version of course does have it, and people seem to be using Full on it in the US.

So, having tried all evening to switch back and forth between full and limited, seen all the options, switching back and forth a million times to make sure... The PS3 will remain on Limited as the TV definitely crushes blacks on Full, and since there is no option to set it on Full, there is very little I can do. I was kinda hoping the TV would display blacks correctly by somehow automatically detecting what signal was going in, but no. The TV is just gimped in Europe.

The initial 'pop' I could definitely see when switching to Full was really just a whole lot of black crush.

So really, it's not as simple as you say, especially seeing how manufacturers still unexplainably and unforgivably decide to release gimped version of even their best TVs in Europe, and letting their US customers enjoy the full range of options they have created.

There is just no excuse for what I found out tonight and I am blaming YOU B3D geeks for ruining my night.

I hate you all.

Goodnight.
What model? Is it a Panasonic? If so, I'm pretty sure the EUR models support full range. It would be unusual for the North American models to support it, but not the EUR models. I have a 2012 Panasonic plasma and it's called HDMI/DVI RGB Range, with options of Standard (16-235, aka Limited), Nonstandard (0-255, aka Full) and Auto.
 
What model? Is it a Panasonic? If so, I'm pretty sure the EUR models support full range. It would be unusual for the North American models to support it, but not the EUR models. I have a 2012 Panasonic plasma and it's called HDMI/DVI RGB Range, with options of Standard (16-235, aka Limited), Nonstandard (0-255, aka Full) and Auto.

It's a Panasonic GT50. The US version does have those options, the EU version does not. As crazy as that sounds, it's the painful truth.

The DVI Input can be set to either Normal or Full, where Normal represents video levels (16-235) and Full corresponds to PC levels (0-255) but if the input is straight HDMI – rather than a HDMI to DVI connection – the GT50 will automatically operate in Normal mode.

So no Full through HDMI. The end.

Still hate you all.
 
What model? Is it a Panasonic? If so, I'm pretty sure the EUR models support full range. It would be unusual for the North American models to support it, but not the EUR models. I have a 2012 Panasonic plasma and it's called HDMI/DVI RGB Range, with options of Standard (16-235, aka Limited), Nonstandard (0-255, aka Full) and Auto.

If its a Pansonic you want to spend some time on AVSforums and see if someone can post a link to access the service menu. Lots of additional options are hidden from the consumer which can improve Panasonic plasma tvs.
 
If its a Pansonic you want to spend some time on AVSforums and see if someone can post a link to access the service menu. Lots of additional options are hidden from the consumer which can improve Panasonic plasma tvs.
Not trying to sound smart, but I spend enough time at AVSForum. ;)

On 2012 models and newer, there's no need to fiddle around in the service menu, all available calibration controls are in the user menu. Plus it's not recommended for people to fiddle around in there if you don't know what you're doing. But if you still want to see what's in there, here is how to access the service menu on Panasonic plasmas (North American models). The 2013 models are the same AFAIK.

http://www.highdefjunkies.com/plasm...urs-used-your-plasma-thread.html#.UyfS-vldWT8

It's a Panasonic GT50. The US version does have those options, the EU version does not. As crazy as that sounds, it's the painful truth.



So no Full through HDMI. The end.

Still hate you all.
Like I said, it's no biggie that your display doesn't support full range. I know Panasonic's software can be quite different between EUR and NA models, but that is still strange that they limited it to DVI and not HDMI on the EUR models. On the plus side, your versions usually have more calibration controls than the NA versions.
 
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Out of curiosity I tried to use the calibration tool on the Xbox One with the console and my tv set to full range ("Normal" on Samsung), but the test patterns they provide do not seem to work. The brightness test shows a gray scale as well as an eye over a black backdrop. You're supposed to lower the brightness until the eye disappears. When I have the console and tv set to full range RGB, the eye is invisible at any brightness. The gray scale should show a number of distinct shades of gray to black, but on any brightness the darkest shades are crushing black. I don't know what the deal is with that. The blacks on my tv are not perfect, so on limited setting the best I can do is make the grey scale show all of the distinct shades with the eye slightly visible.

I've been using my tv and console on limited black level, because all of the reviews I found calibrated it that way. The calibration settings on LCD TV Buying Guide preferred limited to full.

Maybe this topic deserves a spinoff, but I find it interesting.

Maybe move the X1 talk here: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=64676
 
Like I said, it's no biggie that your display doesn't support full range. I know Panasonic's software can be quite different between EUR and NA models, but that is still strange that they limited it to DVI and not HDMI on the EUR models. On the plus side, your versions usually have more calibration controls than the NA versions.

I wish I was making it up. But yes not biggie at all. End of the day, this set produces amazing black levels, contrast and general stability of the image and with proper calibration (which is did do), the picture is simply sublime, especially on Bluray.
 
If contrast looks boosted when you switch to full range, that sounds like you either just crushed your extreme values, or you were previously looking at a washed out image on account of sending limited range to a TV expecting full.

Either way, one of your settings is probably incorrect.
.
Calibration is as follows. XONE set to Full Range. TV set to Computer.

Backlight contrast 27.
Colour 37.
Tint: Warm.
Video Contrast: 77.
Brightness: 47

:smile2:

Tested the Brightness with the Xbox One's built-in calibration tool. It seems to have a weird bug, as Scott Arm pointed out already. Like him, it works well for me when I set the console to Limited Range.

When I set the console to Full Range, the Brightness calibration of the built in tool doesnt work properly 'cos I can't see the closed eye EXCEPT for a split second! Huh? That split second is what I need though, to set Full Range properly.

In order to calibrate the Video Contrast I use something as simple as a picture from the Ice Age DVD and set the Contrast in a way I can tell the ice from the cracks on the glaciers. :smile2: Super simple, yes, but works amazingly well. :smile:

For Limited Range Brightness was set at 27 instead of 47 -Full Range-, but at 27 it looked too dark on Full Range (curiously enough in TV mode instead of Computer mode, 47 is also the sweet spot for Brightness). That's the only change for me while passing from Full Range to Limited Range.

Those are the only settings I care about for calibration, all post-processing effects are disabled.

Important: For those interested on calibrating Brightness on their TV use this native picture of the Xbox One's built-in calibration from a Digital Foundry article. It is an excellent picture to set your Brightness and comes with the instructions, as you can see.

5.bmp.jpg


DF article:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-hardware-test

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Most of what makes SD CRTs look good is just phosphors looking good.

The typical video signals that got used by most people (NTSC and such) are extremely low-quality and prone to artifacts.

Interlacing on SD CRTs sort of has the perk where 60fps games can sometimes look almost "480p60" good, though it's not quite there, and 30fps games have horrible combing artifacts (480p30 to a 60Hz VGA monitor looks much cleaner in motion than sending 30fps video to an SD CRT, even if you're using high-quality video signals for both displays).

SD CRTs were in many ways a hindrance to console IQ during the sixth gen
I was talking about the fact that games like Forza looked truly amazing on the original X-box but when I switched to the next generation and bought a HDTV it looked so bad that it almost tainted all the good memories I had about that game.

Sure, at 480i or p on a CRT of the time it looked fine, but on a HDTV and progressive resolution settings you could tell the truth about the graphics of the game.

A friend told me before playing it on the X360: "If you have good memories about Forza, PLEASE don't run it on a Xbox 360 and a HDTV". Right he was...
 
Do you have dynamic contrast in action?
No, I don't, all post-processing effects are disabled in the Advanced Mode section of the settings. I shall check later when I power the console on but I think I haven't touched them in a long while. Still... not sure...
 
Do you have dynamic contrast in action?

I'm of the belief that the full rgb output is broken. If someone knows a good site with test patterns for full RGB, I could take a look using the web browser on X1 to see if I get some of the same anomalies that I had with the calibration tool. I'm assuming IE shouldn't have any trouble viewing them.
 
I'm of the belief that the full rgb output is broken. If someone knows a good site with test patterns for full RGB, I could take a look using the web browser on X1 to see if I get some of the same anomalies that I had with the calibration tool. I'm assuming IE shouldn't have any trouble viewing them.
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

Either use Xbox One's Internet Explorer (never tried this method, gotta try today out of curiosity) or download the images to your PC and send the images to your Xbox One using DLNA, the method I used, but either approaches should be ok.
 
**Edit: I don't understand how my tv works** I used the test pattern I linked and I was unable to see all of the distinct squares, no matter how high I turned the brightness. My Xbox was set to HDMI with full rgb, and my Samsung TV was set to HDMI black level "Normal" rather than "Limited." As far as I know, that is the full RGB setting. Unless my tv has an issue, or for some reason Internet Explorer has an issue on the Xbox One. It appears to be the same problem I have with the calibration tool, where the black eye will not appear at all.

If someone else with an Xbox One wants to try the test patterns at the following links, please let us know:

http://www.nicolaspeople.com/ch3rokeesblog/?p=16
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

If someone else has an Xbox One hooked up to a monitor via DVI, that would also be interesting to see.

I never noticed the issue because the recommendations I found for my tv all said to calibrate at limited range, so I never really played around with full range.
 
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I believe Full RGB output is most definitely broken over HDMI on my Xbox One. I used the test pattern I linked and I was unable to see all of the distinct squares, no matter how high I turned the brightness. My Xbox was set to HDMI with full rgb, and my Samsung TV was set to HDMI black level "Normal" rather than "Limited." As far as I know, that is the full RGB setting.
Not broken at all, I think. Nor an issue of your TV. It's just that, like mine, your TV doesn't accept Full Range. :smile2:

I tested it, following your link I can only see the last 11 squares at the very bottom. The many many others from there are totally invisible even if I crank up the Brightness to 100.

I had it calibrated on Limited Range, was happy with it, I thank DF for being so pro Full Range and so on but it's not an option for me nor something I am going to miss out on, tbh. In my opinion it is them who should adapt to the TVs and not the TVs to their pro Full Range crusade, which sucks.

My TV is a panel from May 2013, the younger sibling of this one, a very praise-worthy TV, so image quality is not a problem. Back to Limited Range, which btw says "TV" on the console.

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs/1301686/philips-42pfl5008t
 
Why does it have an option to set two different RGB ranges then?
Computer seems to eliminate all post-processing, that's all there is to it, some I've found different at least. The colours are more pronounced -hence at 37 is almost like 50 on TV settings-, no Sharpness, etc etc.

Backlight contrast 27.
Colour 37.
Tint: Warm.
Video Contrast: 77.
Brightness: 27

Those were my calibration settings on Computer mode, which looks awesome. On TV mode I had to crank up the Backlight Contrast a little, Colour was like 50 and the closed eye disappeared at Brightness 47 on TV, at 27 on PC mode.

This just goes to show how biased Digital Foundry are towards the computer when TV makers are ignoring full range. That kinda tells the whole tale....
 
I have a 52 inch samsung plasma and I have the same problem getting the sun to disappear.
I dont get the crushed blacks in the gradient bar though.
 
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