well, at the very least it is no longer a negative.
Consistant / Reliable European / Other sales data source?
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well, at the very least it is no longer a negative.
No killer apps I disagree with. What I imagine is a slow exposure of non-PS3-owners to the smaller number of PS3s currently installed, and over time they've been swayed to buy into the platform. This'll be facilitated by the exclusives - Uncharted, EOJ, or whatever takes someone's fancy - and general system experience, with XMB itself being a 'killer app' for some as it provides a simple, swish, and reasonably thorough media system. if sales had suddenly jumped above XB360 sales then yes, it could be attributed to something like BluRay becoming established, but AFAIK PS3 sales have just been creeping up with ever growing interest. We don't get UK figures to know, though/
Is there any particular reason to think PS3 owners now will be less gamers than PS2 owners at a similar time-frame? There may be some people buying PS3 just as a BRD player, but the machine's abilities are clearly presented in favour of gaming rather than movie making. Videophiles who read up on this sort of thing may go that route, but most people buying the box in gaming and electronics stores must have a clear intention of playing games as part of their use of the system.
No one in the UK thought HD-DVD was going to win anyway
Anyway, Burnout sold as well on PS3 as it did on 360 (better if you consider the smaller install base) so I think that answers your second question.
There was uncertainty surround HD-DVD in the UK just as there was in the rest of Europe and America.
My second question was actually about how much software people who bought the PS3 primarily as a BluRay player might buy, but as you raised the issue of how well a specific existing title has sold to current owners, I'm compelled to point out that the sales of Burnout on the PS3 on their own don't mean a thing.
The 360 is swamped with quality racers while the PS3 isn't (meaning the demand for a quality racer almost certainly won't be the same), and the Burnout franchise may well "resonate" more with the Playstation owners - especially given its rare status as an equal quality cross platform title..
What other racers are there except from PGR4 and Forza2?
More detailed access to figures would certainly be nice, but even without it I can say that what you're describing isn't a "killer app" - not in any traditional sense (in my experience anyway).
Buzz around the platform is growing (as you say), but in the post Christmas period the only significant new factor to appear in the platform's favour is the BluRay win. Tenuous? Perhaps - I have no figures to back it up - but unlike some folks here I do think BluRay's win is significant for the PS3 at this point in its life.
Well, I think it might also have been an interesting question for the PS2 (particularly at the time of its Japanese launch), but the situation with the PS3 isn't quite the same. By the time the PS2 came out in Europe you could get a much better DVD player for about half it's price, and the overwhelming focus of the PS2 marketing was gaming. The PS3 on the other hand appears to be the best, and cheapest, BluRay player in stores and Sony's marketing has rammed the BluRay component of the machine down peoples' ... erm ... ears and eyes ... at every opportunity in every advert that I've seen (even the gaming ones).
BluRay is currently, IMO, a bigger draw for a select group of cash-splash happy videophiles than DVD ever was for the PS2. As the PS3 drops in price and HDTV adoption increases I think the appeal of its BluRay will move into the territory that the PS2's DVD playback did (it's a nice bonus to have in your games console and an extra draw).
And again, I think the PS3's BluRay being good (where as the PS2's DVD playback was bloody awful - no RGB!!!!) is something to remember for the early adopter crowd.
Clearly most PS3 owners will have some interest (little to loads) in its games playing capacity. Assuming that the BluRay win has been responsible for attracting extra people to the platform (and I don't see how it couldn't), I think it would be interesting to see where along this sliding scale of gaming interest these owners would fit.
I don't believe it was as clear cut as you're making out until last month - the shelf space allocated to BluRay and HD-DVD alone indicates this. There's a huge difference between something looking increasingly likely and something being a dead cert - especially in the eyes of someone waiting to dump a lot of money on either side of the fence. It's only now that shops are dumping HD-DVD en masse.
What would these 7 - 1 sales figures relate to btw? Link?
Just a quick look at an online shop gives you:
PGR3
PGR4
Forza 2
Need for Speed: something
Need for Speed: something else
Juiced 2
Burnout Revenge
... and of course Burnout Paradise
There might be others too (the MotoGPs?).
PGR3, PGR4 and Forza are definitely high quality titles and have great replay from their well-supported online modes. PGR3 and Forza 2 in particular have also been bundled with loads of 360s. The Need for Speed games seem to sell well too. Burnout Paradise has a lot more competition on the 360, even if you just count driving games and ignore all the other high selling 360 games that compete for the same chunk of owner's cash.
Directly comparing sales of BP on both systems is a horrible way to try and infer anything about how well the two systems support software sales.
You said that the 360 is swamped with quality racers while the PS3 isn't, while every game you listed exist on the PS3 except for Forza and PGR. PGR was never greatly popular in EU AFAIK, and Europeans are attached more to the GT series.
Two exclusive racing games arent enough to make the European market choose the 360 over the PS3 by difference, or even care enough
Euhm I don't know where you live but here shops or hypermarkets like Carrefour, Free Record Shop, Dreamland stopped selling HD-DVD months ago. The only shop that kept selling (and still is today) HD-DVD is Mediamarkt.
The latest Flatout that was exclusive to the 360 is the only one that really competes with Burnout anyway I think. Though maybe some Burnout Revenge buyers were weary of buying Paradise, while on PS3 it's the first Burnout.
Also, the PS3 has a few racing exclusives of its own, most important in Europe would be F1, but there's also Motorstorm of course. And then there are even more titles that were released on both platforms, such as Dirt and Sega Rally, among others.
Suffice to say, both platforms have a lot of racers.
Also, the PS3 has a few racing exclusives of its own, most important in Europe would be F1, but there's also Motorstorm of course. And then there are even more titles that were released on both platforms, such as Dirt and Sega Rally, among others.
Suffice to say, both platforms have a lot of racers.
No one in the UK thought HD-DVD was going to win anyway
Anyway, Burnout sold as well on PS3 as it did on 360 (better if you consider the smaller install base) so I think that answers your second question.
Until, we got "real" number, I thinking that Burnout didn't sell well on 360 (didn't appear on the Xbox live stat, but it's a world wide stat)… DMC4 on 360 outsell DMC4 PS3 by 1,5 on UK so… also base on not "real" number… but DMC it's probably a more high licence on Playstation than Burnout, not?
Who was talking about people choosing the 360 over the PS3? I sure as hell wasn't. I even pointed out (again) what I was looking at, at the end of the post you responded to (and quoted). You seem to be mixing my perfectly valid point up with some kind of generic argument. Steady on now! I was talking about the competition for a particular cross platform game on each particular platform, where it's almost certainly higher on one platform.
To be honest I don't recall (as you do) all of the other titles mentioned appearing on the PS3. For example, I don't recall Burnout Revenge and Need For Speed Most Wanted and Moto GP, for example, being released on the PS3 - but if you insist they all were then I guess you're right ... right? Perhaps you could confirm this? I can't find a definitive list of PS3 releases.
The Project Gothams actually seemed pretty popular here in the UK, and are on a level with (yeah, subjective I know) the very best stuff I've played on the PS3. Same with Forza. That's three exclusive games (not two), two of which were used heavily in bundles (certainly in the UK).
The more I look into this the more I find the idea that Burnout Paradise faced the same level of competition on both platforms to be unbelievable. And as I took the trouble to point out earlier, driving games don't just compete with other driving games for sales, they also compete with the entire range of software a platform offers.
When a racing game has a lot of competition from highly promoted, high profile, highly regarded platform exclusive titles not only in the same genre but also from a strong library as a whole, comparing sales of that particular cross platform title and inferring software purchasing trends of both sets of platform owners as a whole is not a good way to go about things. That is what my comment in response to DJ12 was about. I'm really not wanting to take this into the territory of "Xbox should sell better than PS3 because it has better driving gaems" (that won't get anyone anywhere
).Who was talking about people choosing the 360 over the PS3? I sure as hell wasn't. I even pointed out (again) what I was looking at, at the end of the post you responded to (and quoted). You seem to be mixing my perfectly valid point up with some kind of generic argument. Steady on now! I was talking about the competition for a particular cross platform game on each particular platform, where it's almost certainly higher on one platform.
To be honest I don't recall (as you do) all of the other titles mentioned appearing on the PS3. For example, I don't recall Burnout Revenge and Need For Speed Most Wanted and Moto GP, for example, being released on the PS3 - but if you insist they all were then I guess you're right ... right? Perhaps you could confirm this? I can't find a definitive list of PS3 releases.
The Project Gothams actually seemed pretty popular here in the UK, and are on a level with (yeah, subjective I know) the very best stuff I've played on the PS3. Same with Forza. That's three exclusive games (not two), two of which were used heavily in bundles (certainly in the UK).
The more I look into this the more I find the idea that Burnout Paradise faced the same level of competition on both platforms to be unbelievable. And as I took the trouble to point out earlier, driving games don't just compete with other driving games for sales, they also compete with the entire range of software a platform offers.
When a racing game has a lot of competition from highly promoted, high profile, highly regarded platform exclusive titles not only in the same genre but also from a strong library as a whole, comparing sales of that particular cross platform title and inferring software purchasing trends of both sets of platform owners as a whole is not a good way to go about things. That is what my comment in response to DJ12 was about. I'm really not wanting to take this into the territory of "Xbox should sell better than PS3 because it has better driving gaems" (that won't get anyone anywhere
MGP was not mentioned in your list (which except from being old it is a different type of racing and it is not a direct competitor to the other games), You didnt specify which NFS ( the 2 NFS games appeared on the PS3 regardless), Burnout Revenge was an old PS2 and XBOX title, and lastly all these games are old (add PGR3) and do not compete with newer sequels and new racing titles.
The competition isnt exactly there.
There is always a similar amount of fresh racers in each period. The older are outdated and not much demanded. Forza 2 is the only "oldish" game that may still be greatly demanded thus compete others.
edit: also many of these games do not necessarily compete each other. They are diversified in nature. Very arcade racing fans are more likely to choose Burnout without laying an eyesight towards Forza, Simulation fans will go towards Forza without looking back, offroad rallying will prefer Dirt, some that are in between may go for PGR4, others will buy lots of racing titles.
You dont exactly get racers that are completely competing each other.
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Yeah, it's not clear cut I agree, but I believe lots of factors can chip away at a game's appeal - the presence of prequels, similar titles, broadly similar titles, "must haves" from right across the spectrum etc.
For example, I would expect the most recent Fifa soccer to sell to a greater proportion on PS3 owners than 360 owners, even if only slightly more. The reasons being that the 360 has already had two years of Fifa titles, and that PES on the 360 is good, while PES on the PS3 seems to have been seriously flawed, and also that there has been stronger competition for 360 owners' money in the period in which it has been on sale.
I'd expect things to change a little next year, as PES for the PS3 gets better, Fifa is no longer new to the platform, and the PS3 library matures. This is all just my speculation of course.
Does anyone have attach rates of the most recent Fifa in Europe from last year?
For example, I would expect the most recent Fifa soccer to sell to a greater proportion on PS3 owners than 360 owners, even if only slightly more. The reasons being that the 360 has already had two years of Fifa titles, and that PES on the 360 is good, while PES on the PS3 seems to have been seriously flawed, and also that there has been stronger competition for 360 owners' money in the period in which it has been on sale.
I'd expect things to change a little next year, as PES for the PS3 gets better, Fifa is no longer new to the platform, and the PS3 library matures. This is all just my speculation of course.
Does anyone have attach rates of the most recent Fifa in Europe from last year?
What you all been waiting for, Sweden week 6:
1. Devil May Cry 4 (PS3)
2. Devil May Cry 4 (360)
3. World of Warcraft (PC)
4. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock (Wii)
5. Singstar Svenska hits Schlager (PS2)
6. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PC)
7. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock (PS3)
8. World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade (PC)
9. Counter-Strike 1: Anthology (PC)
10. Uncharted Drake´s Fortune (PS3)
11. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock (PS2)
12. Wii Play (Wii)
13. Burnout Paradise (PS3)
14. Råttatouille (PS2)
15. Rayman Raving Rabbids (Wii)
16. Ace Combat The Belkan War (PS2)
17. New Super Mario Bros (DS)
18. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock (360)
19. Guitar Hero 2 Rock the 80´s (PS2)
20. High School Musical: Sing It! (PS2)
1. Devil May Cry 4 (PS3)
2. Devil May Cry 4 (360)
3. World of Warcraft (PC)
4. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock (Wii)
5. Singstar Svenska hits Schlager (PS2)
6. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PC)
7. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock (PS3)
8. World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade (PC)
9. Counter-Strike 1: Anthology (PC)
10. Uncharted Drake´s Fortune (PS3)
11. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock (PS2)
12. Wii Play (Wii)
13. Burnout Paradise (PS3)
14. Råttatouille (PS2)
15. Rayman Raving Rabbids (Wii)
16. Ace Combat The Belkan War (PS2)
17. New Super Mario Bros (DS)
18. Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock (360)
19. Guitar Hero 2 Rock the 80´s (PS2)
20. High School Musical: Sing It! (PS2)
Well GT is easily the biggest racing franchise in Europe, and also the world really.
I think even Prologue will sell in vast numebrs when its released, and people see its graphics and online component.
I am amazed how fast the PS3 sw sales have caught up with the 360 sw sales, even though the installed base of 360 consoles is still larger.
On the pre-order top lists I have seen, even the PS3 version of GTA4 is ahead of the 360 version. I have a hard time to comprehend this, seems like some hard-core Playstation gamers are just a bit late to join the next-gen party.
On a side note, the win of blu-ray have got a lot of press here in Sweden and blu-ray films are becoming rapidly more common and even starting to turn up for sale at gas stations. It bodes well for a fast uptake.
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