BSG "Definitely the last Season"

[pjbliverpool]

I feel sorry for people that are going to try to read into the last couple seasons of BSG. It's clear they ran out of ideas and were just doing whatever came to mind to get by.

The intention was always going to be that they were the forebearers of our civilisation, or it was from very early on anyway. There were a lot of threads tied up in the last episode that had been running for a long time so clearly weren't simply last minute ideas.

Anyway, I know it makes people feel cool to diss any show that goes beyond 1 season these days so I'll leave you guys to it.

 

[Bludd]

Are you actually claiming that you think the quality of the second, third and fourth seasons were as good as the mini series and season 1?

 

[pjbliverpool]

Nope, I actually think they were better.

 

[Bludd]

OK, I don't agree with you at all, but I respect your opinion. I think the New Caprica sequence was especially poor.

 

[homerdog]

Season 1 > Season 4 > Season 2 > Season 3. But I don't think any of them would qualify as bad.

The acting was top notch throughout and really sold the show for me. If not for the writers piling on more and more layers of stuff that could never be rationally explained the series would've been an all time great IMO. Actually I still think it's an all time great but it would've been even better. :smile:

 

[vazel]

The intention was always going to be that they were the forebearers of our civilisation, or it was from very early on anyway. There were a lot of threads tied up in the last episode that had been running for a long time so clearly weren't simply last minute ideas.

No. We didn't know how they were going to find Earth or even if they would. That's why in the mid-season 4 cliffhanger where they find the fake Earth destroyed everyone thought it was the real Earth.

Anyway, I know it makes people feel cool to diss any show that goes beyond 1 season these days so I'll leave you guys to it.

Each season has around a couple dozen episodes. Sometimes it's just too much for the writers most especially when the series is based off a serial storyline. In other countries they limit the run of many television series for this reason. I don't like Lost anymore for the same reasons as BSG. Sometimes a show is blessed, I'm immensely enjoying season 2 of Breaking Bad right now more than the first season although the true test is when it'll get into its third and fourth seasons. Farscape was also doing well before it was cut off in the third season and the fourth season had to be compressed into a miniseries finale. I enjoyed all of Quantum Leap's seasons(although they certainly pushed it with one of the last episodes where Sam quantum leapt to before his lifespan, he's not supposed to be able to do that!) but that show didn't have to maintain a serial storyline, the same for Batman:TAS' 109 episodes.

Edit: How could I forget The Wire. A true freak of tv programming. It actually got better with each season.

 

[Dooby]

Nope, I actually think they were better.

Never has one person been so wrong.

There were a lot of threads tied up in the last episode that had been running for a long time so clearly weren't simply last minute ideas.

No, there really wasn't.

What was Starbuck? I am completely at a loss for you people thinking that her being an angel was a justified explanation, when at NO POINT in 5 years had we been told that there were angels. At no point did the series specifically say "there is one god, and he can make people come back from the dead, lead them to just the right place, then vanish"

What was the Cylons plan? Not only did they seem to be making it up during the first series, but after that they just jumped every which way. "Lets settle on a planet with humans", "Lets join forces with humans", "More stupid shit".

Why was Hera important to the humans. There were 38,000 of them. They didn't NEED to have babies with the Cylons.

Why was Hera important to Cavil. He spent a WHOLE episode talking about how he didn't want to be a skin job. He and his followers DID NOT WANT rebirth or even resurrection! They wanted to be MACHINES, end of. How would a human-cylon hybrid, which is another step AWAY from a machine, help him in this cause. If they had wanted to piss off the humans, they should have just shot her ASAP.

The dying leader didn't lead them to Earth, either time. Starbuck did. Twice. It was NEVER explained HOW Starbuck got to the nuked Earth in the first place. Her ship didn't have FTL, and oh yeah, IT EXPLODED SOMEWHERE ELSE COMPLETELY.

Roslin couldn't have been the dying leader, because she didn't get them to Earth. Battlestar Galactica itself WAS NOT the dying leader (can't believe how many times I've read THAT nonsense).

How did Hera have the co-ordinates to the "new" Earth? She had never been there, nor had any Cylon EVER to pass along that data in some kind of archived file. If Starbuck had come up with the notes, it would have still been bullshit (because a god with a plan had never been established, and therefore shouldn't have been able to bring her back or give her the co-ordinates), but HERA knowing them was a godamn awful way to make the stupid ones among the viewers go "that's how she was important".

Go back and watch S1 and S2 again. The Cylons keep saying stuff like "this has happened before" but not in the context of "humans fight Cylons" but numerous times they allude to EXACTLY THE SAME THING happening over and over, like, everytime the Universe rebooted or something. When they blew Leoman out the airlock, he KNEW that was coming, and he told Roslin that this time their roles were reversed and last time she was stood where he was (either her spirit had been in his body, or she was a Cylon "last time").

Why did the Cylons suddenly have a colony, that had never ever been spoken of before, and how was it all the way out where they were? And why was it Organic in an "Aliens (the film)" or "The Borg" kind of way, when everything we've thus far seen about the Cylons was 90 degree corners, walls, floors, super-duper clean and red lighting? Made up nonsense.

What was the point of the never used before, utterly pointless flashbacks? Did Ron Moore finally get round to watching S1 of Lost, and said "That's cool, I want me some of that shit"?

Flashbacks, BTW, that were so harshly jammed in there, that they could any be there to try and make us change our perceptions about these characters that we've been watching for FIVE YEARS!

"Gaius didn't have a nice daddy, forgive him for being a nasty ba****d for 5 years" Er, no.

"Roslin was cool, look she had one night stands and smoked, like all the cool kids do in high school, forgive her for being an uptight unintelligent egomanic b***h for 5 years" Er, no.

"Adama didn't like answering not-so-hard questions to get him a much better job, but hes not really a wimp because he stood up for his own... er... morals? Forgive him for making bad choices and getting 10000 people killed in 5 years" Er, no.

They made up so much crap in that last episode to justify their hardly thought out, doesn't fit with what we know ending, that it made me quite ill.

Despite all his outwardly pimping of himself, I hope Ron Moore knows himself for the con artist he is, for his inability to take a relatively simple concept and keep it cool for more than 30 episodes (S1 and 2).

pjbliverpool, I can't say respect your position on this in light of overwhelming evidence, but if you want to live in wrongness, go right ahead.

 

[Bludd]

One thing that annoyed me with the finale was the fact that many Raptors jumped while inside Galactica, yet when Boomer escaped, they were all "oh no if she jumps inside or even near us we will be in the shitter". There looked to be an explosion but it wasn't nearly as big as the one when just Boomer left. Seemed inconsistent. Meh.

 

[Dooby]

We noted that too, but in an episode of complete and utter FAIL, I decided to concentrate on the big things. My actually list of things that were wrong with the finale could fill a small book. pjbliverpool is so wrong, it's just not funny

 

[DuckThor Evil]

My actually list of things that were wrong with the finale could fill a small book. pjbliverpool is so wrong, it's just not funny

Perhaps you should learn the meaning of "different opinions" and not be so judgeful considering that you are clearly a big time nutcase yourself.

I LOVE Transformers 1. I saw it 7 times at the cinema, and twice on IMAX. I watch TF1 probably once a week

NOW that's messed up!

Galactica and even it's final was 100x the quality of Transformers 1.

 

[BRiT]

What was the Cylons plan? Not only did they seem to be making it up during the first series, but after that they just jumped every which way. "Lets settle on a planet with humans", "Lets join forces with humans", "More stupid shit".

What was the point of the never used before, utterly pointless flashbacks? Did Ron Moore finally get round to watching S1 of Lost, and said "That's cool, I want me some of that shit"?

Flashbacks, BTW, that were so harshly jammed in there, that they could any be there to try and make us change our perceptions about these characters that we've been watching for FIVE YEARS!

The Cylon's Plan may be revealed in the summer/fall when the next BSG movie hits (BSG: The Plan). There was too much flying by the seat of their pants in the series by the writers that prevented the series from being as great as it could have been. The storylines should have been more compact and run no more than 3 full season.

The only point of the flashbacks were to segway to the spin-off series Caprica. The flashbacks were completely out of place. The only place they should belong is in the early episodes of season one and no where else. The new series looks to be absolutely horrible.

 

[Bludd]

I don't know what the Caprica show will be about. Is it going to be a show where the people go around and spew hate about the cylons? Is it going to be a fatalistic show about how stupid they were and "this is why you were nuked"? If it's just about showing what life was on Caprica before the bombs, it's worthless. I don't care what it was like, because we know how it ends. It seems misguided and a misappropriation of the BSG universe. It would take a miracle for me to watch this.

 

[Mummy]

Perhaps you should learn the meaning of "different opinions" and not be so judgeful considering that you are clearly a big time nutcase yourself.

NOW that's messed up!

Galactica and even it's final was 100x the quality of Transformers 1.

Agree on both points.
Dooby you make some valid points, but you should chill out a quite bit.

 

[Babel-17]

Caprica trailer.

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=14&id=57977

I'd much prefer it if it is established that the show exists in a universe that isn't bound by the history of BSG. I have no reason to think that the series creators are of a similar mind.

 

[homerdog]

I agree with all of Dooby's points except the flashbacks didn't bother me, especially the Admiral's.

 

[Dooby]

Perhaps you should learn the meaning of "different opinions" and not be so judgeful considering that you are clearly a big time nutcase yourself.

I'm not talking about opinions. An opinion would be "the writing staff of BSG were all seriously crap and should have been fired years ago". THAT is my opinion. What I posted about above is FACT. They didn't clear up ANY of the story lines, and boiled it all down to "god did it". If liking cohesion in something I invest FIVE years in is being a nutcase, I'm glad I'm not "sane".

Galactica and even it's final was 100x the quality of Transformers 1.

Now THAT'S an opinion. I've stated many many times that s1 and 2 of BSG were fantastic. But then it all went to hell, despite every one still claiming it was the most intelligent and moody sci-fi ever. It broke it's own rules and towards the end just plain made shit up.

Transformers on the other hand didn't profess to be intelligent. It's an action film, end of. The story line I admit freely is junk as is most of the humour thats not Shia/Megan based, but the SFX were awesome, Shia's acting was brilliant and his comic timing was spot on. The music was exceptional, both the "bought in stuff" and the OST. There are large portions of TF1 that I can't stand, but overall, taken as a fun way to spend 2 hours, it's quality.

The Cylon's Plan may be revealed in the summer/fall when the next BSG movie hits (BSG: The Plan).

I'm sorry but something as huge scale as that should NOT be "tacked on". It's the same thing as having to read websites to find out that Moore believed that Thrace was an angel. You should not not not be finding out major answers and story lines in stuff not directly connected with the series. Look at LOST. We know enough about what's going on on the island from the series alone, but if you want more backstory, you can watch stuff online, but there's nothing there that is absolutely necessary. BSG fails, again.

The only point of the flashbacks were to segway to the spin-off series Caprica. The flashbacks were completely out of place. The only place they should belong is in the early episodes of season one and no where else. The new series looks to be absolutely horrible.

While I was watching the flashbacks, and similarly wondering WTF we hadn't seen any of this before, it suddenly struck me that we were watching A LOT of the city in flybys. So, I'm calling this one now; those same buildings (ok, maybe from different angles) will appear in Caprica. That's right, they used the SFX budget of the finale, to finance the rendering of the city that will be used in the new series. This suspicion was further confirmed later on, when we saw the centurions. Oh My God, did those models look shockingly bad, especially the "old" style robots. They spent all the SFX budget on the city, and did the centurions on the cheap. Another thing I was disgusted about!

Dooby you make some valid points, but you should chill out a quite bit.

This is me chilled. I am both a writer and a salesman. I oversell things naturally and can write a lot in a small space of time. Don't take my verbose answers and use of caps as me getting overly excited.

 

[Mariner]

I'm surprised anybody thinks that the Cylons actually did 'have a plan'. Unless you think that 'the plan' was to completely change their behaviour every few episodes depending on the requirements of the latest storyline.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I'm not talking about opinions. An opinion would be "the writing staff of BSG were all seriously crap and should have been fired years ago". THAT is my opinion. What I posted about above is FACT. They didn't clear up ANY of the story lines, and boiled it all down to "god did it". If liking cohesion in something I invest FIVE years in is being a nutcase, I'm glad I'm not "sane".

No, you are absolutely talking about opinions. My opinion is that the 4th season was better than the first (I thought the series got progressively better as it went on). My opinion is that the final was entertaining and my opinion is that the inclusion of the religious aspects in the show wasn't all bad.

Telling someone that their opinion is "wrong" or even better "a pile of horseshit" because you disagree with it is frankly, extremely childish.

Yes there were some story issues and not every question was answered but that didn't stop me from enjoying it, or appreciating the resolution of those aspects that were concluded.

 

[nutball]

I find myself wondering whether the writers of sci-fi series have concluded that it doesn't really matter if their plots have big holes in them, or are just made up with no real rhyme or reason. There'll always be a hard-core of fans who'll want to fill in the gaps for them, or are willing to conclude that something which is unexplained must ergo be deep and mysterious, reflecting an even deeper plot which is intentionally hidden by the really clever writer(s).

As for the Caprica series, my guess is it'll centre round exploring the inter-personal relations between a bunch of people, sort of in the way that soap operas do. It'll touch on a bunch of modern-day eco-techno issues, gotta get the political grand-standing in. And it'll get cancelled after the first series.

 

[Dooby]

Telling someone that their opinion is "wrong" or even better "a pile of horseshit" because you disagree with it is frankly, extremely childish.

Just because it's your opinion doesn't make it not wrong.

I have given clear concise reasons that the ending didn't work. Like I said, if you *believe* the ending to be worthwhile, that's fine by me. I'm just glad that we won't ever meet head to head over anything more important than a TV series, because if you're this willing to blindly follow nonsense, you actually scare me.

Every stunt that BSG pulled in the last two years is enough to garner other TV shows scorn and revulsion (see Heroes).
Yet when BSG :
a) forgets its own mandate and major plot lines;
b) changes characters actions on an EPISODIC basis;
c) retcons the history of the characters for no good reason;
d) takes a whole episode to explain what should be a 5-10 minute scene;
e) see many many reason previous about the nonsense of the finale;
we still have the fanatics that claim it's the best thing since, well, ever. Just because, from what I can see, there's string music playing over extreeeeeemely long scenes.

I'm seriously concerned as to why. I'm a MAJOR sci-fi geek, and even though I've felt BSG going down the crapper since halfway through s3, I stuck with it in the hope that Ron would pull a solid out in the end. He didn't.

So, pjbliverpool, I'm actually curious. Can you say why, specifically, after 5 years, you were fine with BSG throwing away everything it had shown us previously, to give us an incredibly simple deus ex machina? In the spirit of making this a more intellectual discussion, can you also give instances that back up the sudden turn around in, ooo, just about everything on the show?

Oh, I just thought of another one. Why would Starbuck, who's an angel at this point according to the last episode, have a vision about her dad, who then teaches her to play the piano? And who was her dad, and why did he know the Cylon song? Wouldn't she, as an angel, just *know* the co-ordinates? To me, this feels like even just a couple of episodes before the finale, they were still trying to figure out Starbucks storyline.